ABRAHAM LINCOLN WAS OUR MOST DIVISIVE PRESIDENT.

How do you know modified and full?
Was the wood refinished?

How do you know modified and cylinder?
Was the wood refinished?

Why are you shouting?

chokes measure mod and cylinder with my handy dandy galazan choke gauge. wood finish looks pretty good. checkering is sharp. wood could have been redone. if so, long ago.

The U.S. Government purchased 1,506 LC Smiths for aerial training...purchased through Rochester Ordnance...serial number range 197,321--May 9, 1942.....thru.....202,813--April 9, 1943

Field Grade 1,477
Ideal Grade 20
Wild Foul 9
--------------
Total 1,506

These guns were marked on the barrel flats with USA and USAF (US Army Forces) and a flaming ordnance bomb usually...........and commonly seen for sale at various sites.........(the U.S. Air Force did not come to be until 1948----prior to '48 it was the U.S. Army Air Corps)

From the pictures, the action looks to have been blued. I believe NID's usually left the factory color case hardened but perhaps they finished the military orders differently? Maybe it's just the pictures and not blued at all...

receiver is blued, with no evidence of ever being case colored.

two bits of info. an ithaca collector remembers reading somewhere that the army did order several hundred model 37 pump guns and about 200 nid's for aerial gunner training purposes. also, heard from an ex army flyer trainee who remembers shooting clay birds with one of these at macdill field in florida in 1943!

They also used Remmy M31's. Years ago, I bought a Army surplus stock for my Dad's M31 from SARCO

The U.S. Army Air Corps and the U.S. Navy did procure lots of 12-gauge Skeet Guns for aerial gunnery training during WW-II. However, that gun is not an NID Skeet Gun. It has been rewooded, and has an aftermarket Miller single selective trigger and has 2 (modified) and 4 (full) for the choke marks. An Ithaca NID Skeet Gun, by catalogue definition, would have had a beavertail forearm, ejectors, a factory single trigger and would have been choke marked S and S. While on the early NIDs Ithaca contracted for the Miller's to apply unmarked single selective triggers, by the time that gun was made Ithaca was using their own Howland-designed single triggers, both selective and non-selective. The chokes would measure about .009" and .014", pretty tight by today's skeet choke standards. The NID frames were case colored. That gun is a seriously redone "shooter." Gus procured by the Government would be stamped U.S. somewher on the metal and have the "flaming bomb" stamp nearby and the inspector's cartouche. It could of at one time been a Government gun used for guard purposes or even a gun for Special Services for Servicemen to check out to go hunting with when on leave of liberty.

From the pix, it looks buffed and reblued as well as redone stock finish. The screw holes and screws in the triggerplate give it away.

The crossed cannon cartouche' is an indication that can't be ignored, but how the gun was used is anyone's guess.

Strange that it doesn't have the usual "Property of U.S. Government" so prevalent on everything from pencils and ballpoint pens to bulldozers.

Walt might be able to find out where it originally delivered to.

in addition to the crossed cannon stamp it also has the ordnance bomb stamp.

Fatty Forend is not original and does not match the butt stock...not factory....appears the checkering on the forend is also a recent addition.....

The re-blue, the pad and the mid bead are all add on's from JO-da-hunta in Missouri where you got it..........

$591.00 purchase price you paid, not a consignment....why lie ....???....

How anyone would say "could" have been redone after looking at this gun is amazing !

Some tips for new buyers,
Never buy from anyone who tries to pawn off redone guns and has no clue that they are or more likely tries act like its not !
Never buy from anyone who will not let you,or your agent see the gun hands on.
and most of all;
NEVER BUY FROM A SELLER WHO USES ALL CAPS IN HIS ADD !!!!!!!!!!!
Especially some clown named Ed in NH aka "the torch" !!!

Way to bust 'em!! It's amazing how many guys try to sell blatantly refinished guns as originals. What is scary is that the hot blued barrels and torch "case hardened" frames are dangerous to fire.

Feel free to use this system to discuss your doubles, drillings, combination guns, other fine firearms, and related material. The rules are really simple: Stay on the subject matter, keep it clean, and contribute answers when you can!

He means GOOD.

i do not discuss my private business relationships in a public forum. suffice to say that the consigner of this item and i have been trading guns and money for quite a while now. our relationship is based on mutual trust and respect, which are two aspects of this thread that are sadly lacking.

You bought this gun on a public forum:


http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=167189776

Ouch !!! Busted big time Ed !

pa24: your post has nothing to do with this topic, which is typical of your other posts.....has it ever occurred to you that things are not always as they may appear to you?

dave k & chuck h: dittos...

Why all the lies? "RECENTLY ACCEPTED CONSIGNMENT...", "ACCORDING TO CONSIGNER..."
In May, you bought this gun without checkering on the forend and in July it was "...checkering is sharp. could have been redone. if so, long ago."

From the previous owner's auction in May.



From your auction


My first thought was to ask Dave to bar you from posting here because of your dishonest behavior. But, the more I think about it, it's probably a better service to the double gun community to let you stay.

too bad no one else who pays attention to this forum has anything positive to contribute...oh well, i have learned to lower my expectations here...

ed you are as full of sh!t as a Christmas Turkey, and the laughingstock of everyone half informed about firearms.

Feel free to use this system to discuss your doubles, drillings, combination guns, other fine firearms, and related material. The rules are really simple: Stay on the subject matter, keep it clean, and contribute answers when you can!

"Stay on the subject matter, keep it clean, and contribute answers when you can!"

Hey I got two out of three, not too bad.

Makes sense Chuck...... he just posts his tired goods here to pick up some free 'press' while appearing to ask some stupid questions that he already has the answers for............kind of like fishing.......hoping some newbee will jump on one of his junkers......

guess you jokers aint got no imagination. are you so single focused and mean spirited that you cannot solve this riddle? i will give you a big hint... most times i act as a sellers agent. and, sometimes i act as a buyers agent.

according to the madison avenue ad guys, if you repeat something often enough, even the dullest will eventually get the message... so,

Feel free to use this system to discuss your doubles, drillings, combination guns, other fine firearms, and related material. The rules are really simple: Stay on the subject matter, keep it clean, and contribute answers when you can!

could they be wrong?

Imagination!? Is this like your friend "Ed the Torch"?, And Honest Ed Good, the used gun salesman?

Craig

YEP! THEY WERE WRONG!

we seek no wider war...lbj

Ed,

Why are you the only person on this thread who types in either all caps or is to lazy to use capital letters to start a sentence? One should follow the basic rules of grammer not only to ensure effective communications but out of respect to those to whom they are attempting to communicate.

Mark

mark: just habit i guess. i see the text better with my poor eye sight, which has grown weak over the years...i would like to say, as did george washington, in the service of my country, but alas, circumstances did not present me with the opportunity to achieve that honor.

Welcome to the DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com. Feel free to use these forums to discuss your doubleguns, double rifles, drillings, combination-guns and related material. The rules are really simple: Stay on the subject matter, keep it clean, and contribute answers when you can!

The description on GunBroker:
Nice Ithaca NID, 12ga. 26" barrels mod/full, double ivory beads. Excellent shooter with perfectly functioning Miller single selective trigger. Extractors. barrels clean bored, barrels and acton have a slight bit of freckling on them, action was blued to match barrels, no cocking indicators, has ordinance "bomb" mark indicating wartime production. Stock is original, has nice checkering, forend is a replacement uncheckered beavertail, but fits nice. Ship to F.F.L. only, must accept shipping from individual with valid I.D. Postal Money orders only. Shipping cost $35.00. to lower 48. Payment expected in 5 days. Questions call or e-mail 816-xxx-xxxx. Pete

DITTOS TO YOU TOO!

I recall being taught this concept in Psychology classes in college. It was said to come from research into how the Nazis could convince the German people who were butcher, bakers, and candlestick makers to turn into murderous villians who could torture and exterminate millions of Jews.

The psycological reasearch referred to this as "The Big Lie".

Tell a lie. Tell it often. Have an "authority figure" back it up, and above all, keep repeating it and eventually people will accept it as the truth.

Many here have figured you out and busted you over and over. But Psycologists have determined that you will still be able to fool some of the people some of the time.

Caveat Empetor. Too bad there's no bullshit rule.

Sounds familiar?

Obama Admin?

H&H

Oh, puhleeease get over it H&H12 BORE

can you say weapons of mass destruction? of course you can

the krauts didn't invent this crap, they just provided some convenient instructions for every politician (among others)since. Like loud and often was a secret anyway. Just ask good old William Randolph Hearst how the Spanish American War came down.

Dr.WtS

"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998

"Hussein has .. chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."
Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999

"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."
Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002

The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998.
We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities.
Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."
Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002

I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force-- if necessary-- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."
Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002

"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his
chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do" Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002

Every good Democrat knows damn good and well that Bush and Cheney were the driving force behind Nazi Germany and the cause of the Spanish American War. Heck, they even talked Adam into eating the Forbidden Fruit.

WTS

Get over what, it was a joke........lighten up

H&H

Just what is 'effuent' anyway?

Why is it whenever someone tries to use a fancy word they invariably misspell it? You think they'd be extra-careful to get it right, what with it being a special occasion and all.

Way back there in May/June when the bt was redone spelling wasn't as standardized as it is now in July.

jack

Thank you, Sir, for one of the greatest knockout punches I've ever witnessed.

That was on hell of a reply !!!!
well done

Why is it that Democrats always deny the facts and the truth even when it is thrown right in their face....is
it the party of really stupid people or JUST FANTASY POLITICS 101 for DUMMIES.......?........

In aviation we call it "situational awareness"..., commonly called SA....I guess they have none of that.....?.....

Doug, I always thought that was called CFIT!

Craig

Craig:

In CRM they teach it as SA........

"CRM training focuses on teaching skills to flight crews that enable them to work together in making effective decisions and on how to best use resources available to them in their specific airplane to enhance situational awareness".....FAA....

Years ago it was called 'cockpit resource management'....today it is called 'crew resource management'.........CRM.......

Anyway, the Democrats do not appear to have any "situational awareness"......

mr. president, it's a slam dunk! said bush's cia guy. i forgot his name, but boy was he wrong....so far.