Aside from a good watch, or maybe the piston and cylinder in a gasoline engine, what pre-WWII consumer good was machined to the same tight tolerances as a fine shotgun?

Scientific instruments, cameras, the machinery for making watches, instruments, cameras, etc.

Pistols, rifles and almost everything else.

Packards, Rolls Royces, Bugattis, Hispano-Suizas, Mercedes, et al.

Jessica Biel
http://deceiver.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/jessica_biel_too_beautiful.jpg

Walther.....

Where on earth did you get the idea doubles were built to some incredibly tight tolerances? Many are nicely built but there's nothing special about the fitting. I mean, even on the best guns the bores are finished near some pre-determined diameter, and are aligned to shoot in the same general direction. The well built gun is joined where most of the bearing surfaces fit, but not all. The stock is headed up well enough to avoid cracking, etc. Even the best guns are not perfect. They display excellent workmanship, not perfection.

I tend to agree with Joe. There is no way you can compare tolerances with a
Patek-Philippe for example.

JC

Several yrs back there was a discussion on this forum about the fit of rotary bolts. When Alexander Brown came up with it he conceived it as a "Dual Purpose" bolt to both hold the bbls down to the action, & also to hold the standing breech "UP to" the bbl breeches. This was stated in his patent & some early statments he made concerning it. At the time a good number of members here did a "Smoke Test" on their rotary bolt guns; Smith's, NID's & Foxes & not a single one as I recall found the fit for that 2nd function, so in effect the rotary bolt offered no "Real" advantage over the simple wedge bolt of a Stevens.

Anyone ever check the fit of parts on an old Singer or Wheeler & Wilson sewing machine of this same era??

The generators in Hoover Dam first began producing electricity in 1936 and are still in operation today. Now that's a precision machine!!

I'm going to put my two cents in for whatever it may be worth. I know this may cause some controversy, but I say that a custom made western saddle built my late father, Jack M. Kendall, would fall in the category of being as well made as a custom made shotgun. His saddles were not built with close tolerances in mind, but they were all hand made and displayed perfection that one would find in a custom made shotgun. When people bought from him, they were buying the best that money could buy.

Bushmaster I think you might be confusing precision with aesthetics.

A sewing machine or turbines in a hydro electric dam are built with great precision but are certainly lacking in aesthetics for most observers.

The generators in Hoover Dam are made to repaired as needed. The water wheels in all of them are in the process of being replaced. The bearings run in full hydrodynamic lubrication which means there is no metal to metal contact. The generator slip rings wear because of the brushes riding on them, but they are designed to be replaced as needed. The generator winding insulation degrades with age and electrical stress, but can be replaced when it fails. etc. They are big old machines that are well made but don't qualify as high precision in the sense of a watch or even a shotgun.

OB

I agree with TwiceBarrels, the pleasing astetics of wood, metal and engraving on the classic guns is something special.
Having all of that in something that you can use and enjoy is even better.

Micrometers, slide rules, and all those things that allowed shotguns to be built. A custom shotgun isn't a precision instrument, and after a few hundred shots, it's no longer even close to being so.

IMHO the finest metal work I've ever seen was on a new in the box, pre WW-II, Colt Ace that my friend the late Phil Toliphero in Charles County, Maryland, had. I'm not at all into handguns, but I'd love to have that one for the beautiful workmanship.

The pre-war Colts are pieces of art in addition to being precision instruments. Each and every one from the lowest Police Positive was hand fitted and polished. I have a few Colts in the around 100 years old range that ended up as "night stand guns" an perhaps were never even fired. The fit and finish on the new/old guns is a sight to behold. We will IMO never see the likes of these again as the labor costs alone precludes their manufacture.

Pictured below is a Colt Police Positive in 32 new Police. The only wear evident on the gun is slight blueing loss where the crane has been swung open. I would have to disassemble this pistol to put it back into firing condition as the internal grease has frozen the mechanism. Please excuse the hazy picture as this isn't the best time of day for photography.
Jim

Jim

The perfecion of fine guns is related to several different properties that are more related to pianos or violins; where steel, iron and wood work in unison. The gun locks and other steel working parts are designed to wear together (not apart). Stock wood is inleted to iron to stay in close contact to withstand recoil forces. Barrels and frame are designed to assemble in such a manner that upon shot ignition flex together in a controlled way. Pianos, violins and guns need accomplished operators to perform well. They can have pleasant stetics and can last centuries if well cared.

EJSXS.

I agree,pre war Colts are all "custom shop" guns of today-better infact.


These are not bad either when you want fine hand fitted workmanship;

Yes Dave:
I recently picked up an S42 Luger chamber dated 1939. It is in almost pristine condition and I doubt it has ever been fired.
The blueing is around 98% and the checkering on the grips is still sharply pointed.
It is my understanding that it took 2 hours of skilled labor to correctly fit and assemble a Luger. This could be accomplished with a P38 in about 10 minutes.
Jim

Just watched a program about redesigning Hoover (Boulder) dam and as I recall, those generators are about the third generation with more on the way. Sort of like saying my car is all original except I replaced the engine, drive train, suspension and sheet metal about three times.

Colin, I'd like to see a photo or two of the saddles your dad made. Did he carve his own tree and were they custom made to a particular horse or a generic fit? Randy

Pretty wide swath here. I'm having some trouble with "consumer goods," "scientific instruments," and "custom" all mixed in. I wouldn't want a Tommy gun in a muddy foxhole nor a treadle sewing machine in a barn full of chaff and dust. Maybe a .45 "grease gun" and a needle and thimble. Precision and tight tolerances and finish and decoration are seldom produced for the hell of it and no return in sight, whatever the tradition on South Audley St.

jack