HI, while looking thru GB, I happened to spot a nice 2" Turner BLE. I also noticed another 2" Turner. Lo and behold the same gun, but different sellers. Have a look:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=342301464and
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=342148499I smell a rat.
Best!
Greg
The titles of the two ads even use the same headline, punctuation and all. One is in Red Bold though.
I emailed Jay about it yesterday,or Thursday. I didn't get a response.
I did report this to GB, so we'll see what happens. I doubt Jay is the guilty party if there is something fishy going on.
Time will tell.
My only intention was to make Jay aware of it.
terc
My only intention was to make Jay aware of it.
terc
terc, I know that, sorry if you thought otherwise. I take my hat off to you for contacting him. I've dealt with him in the past and he's always been an upfront guy.
The other guy has got a A+ rating and a lot of transactions also.
I guess we'll see what happens.
Take care and sorry if I offended you.
Best!
Greg
Since there are only a few photos posted by one seller I do suspect that Jay has the gun in hand or was the original seller. This could be a gun on consignment, perhaps with one seller not knowing the owner has a second seller trying to sell the same gun at the same time. I have seen this happen before when a gun gets listed on two different sites by two different sellers. Seems the one seller had the gun listed and re-listed for months then the second seller was given the "Rights" to sell the gun on a consignment basis by the owner and listed it for sale on a another site. The seller figured two sellers are better than one and does not think he is abusing either of the sellers.
The problem is that the second seller listed it as a no reserve auction and it looks to be selling for very little money. How did any seller get permission to sell that gun with no reserve and not a decently high starting price. 2" guns are not so popular that you can count on a bidding war to run the price up. That gun will not be sold for a grand. Something is going to stop this sale. Perhaps a last minute withdrawal siting listing error.
If the second seller had not many feed backs or a bad track record I might suspect fraud but in this case I do not know. One way to avoid this type on conflict is to alter photos with a watermark that shows the sellers name in the photo in such a way that hijacking photos is not possible. Make the second seller take his own photos which would require him to have the gun in his possession.
Since there are only a few photos posted by one seller I do suspect that Jay has the gun in hand or was the original seller. This could be a gun on consignment, perhaps with one seller not knowing the owner has a second seller trying to sell the same gun at the same time. I have seen this happen before when a gun gets listed on two different sites by two different sellers. Seems the one seller had the gun listed and re-listed for months then the second seller was given the "Rights" to sell the gun on a consignment basis by the owner and listed it for sale on a another site. The seller figured two sellers are better than one and does not think he is abusing either of the sellers.
The problem is that the second seller listed it as a no reserve auction and it looks to be selling for very little money. How did any seller get permission to sell that gun with no reserve and not a decently high starting price. 2" guns are not so popular that you can count on a bidding war to run the price up. That gun will not be sold for a grand. Something is going to stop this sale. Perhaps a last minute withdrawal siting listing error.
If the second seller had not many feed backs or a bad track record I might suspect fraud but in this case I do not know. One way to avoid this type on conflict is to alter photos with a watermark that shows the sellers name in the photo in such a way that hijacking photos is not possible. Make the second seller take his own photos which would require him to have the gun in his possession.
Very well said and thought out, good point about it being a consignment piece. But to look at it on the surface, sure looks funny.
It would be interesting to see what would happen if there was a bid on Jay's ad also.
Kind of fun to follow and see what happens!
Best!
Greg
If I were Jay I would bid on it on the other site. See if the seller is going to sell it for a grand when he is trying to get eight grand on another site.
I think we all know that it is not Vintage Firearms--note the name of the second seller and the fact he has nothing else to sell
I am surprised that GB is letting this go on so long
Berrien
Hi, well I e-mailed the seller (the one with no reserve) and here' the response:
The e-mail I sent:
Hi, say I was wondering if you could tell me if this gun is on consignment from Jay at Vintage Firearms? Jay's ad is the same as yours. Just want some clarification prior to my bidding on this one. I trust you can understand my concerns. Thanks so much!!!! Greg
And here is the sellers response:
Hi,
The Arthur Turner 2" 12ga. - 5LBS. 6OZ. GUN, LATE 1920 is in mint condition, barely used, with no damage. I will offer 30 days return policy for both, as I have 2, same model and condition. You dont have to wait for auction to end, just let me know if you want one and let me know your best offer. I will sell it right away, before auction ends. You can contact me at salebay2013 (at) gmail (dot) com so I can send you pictures also and see its mint condition. I will wait your reply. Please specify also your best offer. I have shut this gun and its perfectly safe.
Thank you
Kind of odd to have 2 guns of the same model and condition, well perhaps not.
So....what do you think now?
Best!
Greg
Greg, did you ask the fellow for the additional pictures he offered ?
I notice that at no point does he specifically answer your specific question.. Alarm bells!!
Looks at the photos--this is the same gun and the "dirty" seller is using some of the same photos--GB is not doing its job
Berrien
Greg, did you ask the fellow for the additional pictures he offered ?
Yep
I notice that at no point does he specifically answer your specific question.. Alarm bells!!
Yep
Looks at the photos--this is the same gun and the "dirty" seller is using some of the same photos--GB is not doing its job
Berrien
Yep
Blatant scam. He has to tell you he has two of the guns so that when you send your money he can keep the ad active and try and reel in more suckers.
CHAZ
Blatant scam. He has to tell you he has two of the guns so that when you send your money he can keep the ad active and try and reel in more suckers.
CHAZ
You think (lol)! I e-mailed for more pics and info, will keep you posted
Tell him you want to use an equity house and see what he says.
Well it sold for $880. Hope the buyer gets in hand. For $880 in that condition and if it's on the up and up, that's one heck of a deal.
BTW, no responses to the other e-mails I sent.
We'll see if he posts his "2nd" gun for sale.
Best!
Greg
I emailed him and asked if he would sell me the gun for a $1,000.00 and do an exchange at the ffl dealer in his town of Corsicana, Tx. It would be the pawn shop in the town. I asked if he took the gun to the ffl dealer where his money would be waiting. He said that everything was fine and he would sell me the gun for the $1,000 but no ffl. He wanted the money to go to his gun broker's account. Sorry, too fishy for me. Frank
I emailed him and asked if he would sell me the gun for a $1,000.00 and do an exchange at the ffl dealer in his town of Corsicana, Tx. It would be the pawn shop in the town. I asked if he took the gun to the ffl dealer where his money would be waiting. He said that everything was fine and he would sell me the gun for the $1,000 but no ffl. He wanted the money to go to his gun broker's account. Sorry, too fishy for me. Frank
Thanks Frank for the info. Sounds about right. I wonder if this guy has a bank account in Nigeria?
Jay is probably the $880.00 bidder on the other auction! I like the $810.00 gun better, how about you guys.
Sooooo......
I just spoke with the real owner of that gunbroker account on the phone and it seems that his account was hacked... likely by some Nigerian scammer or the like.... these scammers are getting smarter and smarter. They are hacking into accounts with established feedback so that people are more likely to buy.
So..... watch out!
Adam et al
It was WITH OUT question that this was a scam--why did not GB do something??
Berrien
Adam et al
It was WITH OUT question that this was a scam--why did not GB do something??
Berrien
Good Question, when I reported it, they said they'd get back to me, and said that they had a lot of backlog!
In the end we have to be the masters of our own success and take full responsibility. Let the buyer beware. If we ever get too greedy we put ourselves at risk of getting nailed by unscrupulous bastards like this scammer. Good lesson here.
In the end we have to be the masters of our own success and take full responsibility. Let the buyer beware. If we ever get too greedy we put ourselves at risk of getting nailed by unscrupulous bastards like this scammer. Good lesson here.
Very well said!!!!
The hacked account one went for $880 and is marked sold.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=342148499 I would sure like to see the email exchanges between the buyer and seller.
Hi all, well here's the response from GB, A bit late!!
Contact Customer Service
Issue #: 542386
Status:
Closed
Date Opened: Saturday, May 18, 2013
Item Number: 342148499
Subject: Fraud
5/24/2013 9:13:33 PM
GBSupport1111 Thank you - we will review the listings.
5/18/2013 12:53:51 AM
Gregory Westberg I see that the same gun is being offered by two different sellers. Same pictures and description. Item Number: 342301464 and 342148499