It has been discussed a method to tighten up the action is to put a shim around the hinge pin or in the lug. I am wondering what people do to keep it in place. I have found after a few openings and closings it starts to move out of place. The glues I have tried don't hold.

I was also wondering instead of a shim if anyone has tried steel acra-glass? I'm not sure under the recoil if it would stand up or not.

Loctite Black Max is the best I've found. To give the super glue come elasticity they added microscopic particles of rubber. Works fairly well but still leaves a lot to be desired. I add the shim to the hook. All pieces must be ultra clean and the inside of the shim should be scratched up to help adherence. I think solder would be the best answer but usually the shim is so thin it's very difficult to do (at least for me).

J.B. Weld is suppose to have the strength of solder but is an epoxy (?). Comes two tubes in a packet and is mixed in equal parts. Caution it can only be removed by abrasive action or heat over 600 degrees.

Stan successfully followed a suggestion in his BSS thread wherein he detailed issues in seeking repair for his loose action. The suggestion was to shim with aluminum tape used in the HVAC industry. It is adhesive backed and comes in various thicknesses. Link is below. Gil
http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbt...0725#Post470725

The HVAC aluminum tape worked like a charm, Tamid. It has an adhesive on one side, requiring you to pull off a backing before applying. Clean the hook thoroughly with alcohol before putting it on, then take a 3/8" dowel or something else about that size and press the tape firmly into the hook. I cut mine oversize than trimmed it with an Exact knife. you can hardly see it there and it doesn't move. My tape is .003" thickness. Lasting good so far. Be sure to lube it well before putting barrels back on.

Credit to bushveld for the idea.

SRH

The tape sounds like an interesting solution. Thanks.

Is it possible in some doubles to rotate the pin?

It's seldom the hardened pin is worn but is usually the soft hook.

I don't personally know, but have heard it said that it is at least possible in Winchester's Model 21......where the friction part of the hinge pin is actually a bushing that sleeves over an inner transverse pin.

One might get away with it for one partial rotation ??(assuming it doesn't shift with use)?? but the correct solution, I was told, would be to replace the worn bushing with one of slightly larger diameter. This was passed onto me some years ago by an employee of CSMC. I can't vouch for the accuracy of it......but have always been curious if it is true.

Tamid I have done this type of “Shim The Hook” repair for many years, after many methods tried over the years I found that the best method of fixing the shim for me is Solder but not just any solder.
Firstly, if I shim a gun to improve matters for another person rather than for myself I always use a brass shim stock, so it can easily be spotted if the gun where to change hands.
For my own use I use steel shim stock.
The solder I prefer for this work is electrical/electronic grade 60% Tin 40% Lead SOLDER PASTE it is easy to use and makes no mess at all by running out of the joint.
Clean the hook and the shaped shim I use 1000 grade wet and dry abrasive paper then degrease, apply the solder paste to the barrel hook (the solder paste is a mixture of fine particles of solder in a resin flux paste) then fit shim. Keep the shim in place using fine wire, clean any paste you may have spread to other parts then heat the area gently. Now the melting point of the paste is normally no higher than 140 degrees and just to make sure I leave a very small amount of paste close to the shim so I can see when the solder in the paste starts to flow then stop heating, though always heat the hook metal so the heat travels to the shim not the other way around.

Loctite 660 is the best solution. It is made for repairs of this nature. Clean parts with Acetone. slight roughening is good as well.

Find a cheap soft dowel like home stores sell slightly above hook diameter and crush fit it into the hook clamping the shim at all surface positions with a c clamp with a floating button. Let it cure 24 hours. Trim, final fit.

Shim will wear out before you break the bond if properly cleaned.

One could certainly simply leave the shim loose on the action, just being aware of it being there while cleaning the barrels.

The notion of soft brass or aluminum seems good.

An article in DGJ, describing an identicle brass shim repair, free of any solder or adhesive, by a gent who did just that with a Nitro Special, and used the well worn piece as his waterfowl gun, with a steady diet of big loads for many years leaves little doubt the repair is good enough for a working gun.

Best,
Ted

Now I don't like disagreeing with people but the use of Loctite 660 or the older version found over here Loctite 601 can only be classed as a temporary running repair, because its main function is a retainer/bonder for close fitting cylindrical parts. very useful for keeping keys in keyways permanent fit for bearings and bushes in holes or housing and requiring a great deal of heat to break its bond. If used as a just an adhesive on the barrel hook its bond starts to break down at the open edges and a shim fitted this way will eventually fail sometimes very quickly.

Ted,
Just leaving the shim float is a problem in that it moves out of the hook then starts to bind the action, at least that is my experience with 2 different guns.

Scotch tape does wonders as a temporary fix when you just want to take the old worn out gun to the range for an afternoon...Geo

Did you use a brass shim, or steel? Worse would be ground and hardened feeler gauge stock, it would resist conforming to surfaces it was placed between.

Ordinary typing paper is perhaps .004 in thickness. It retains oil beautifully, and will work for a day or two of shooting. Easy to cut, fit, and replace as needed.


Best,
Ted

Does any one remember the old trick of putting bananas in a standard shift transmision case to make noisey gears quiet when selling that car??

Nice analogy? Hope that's not what this thread's about...Geo

I heard sawdust. Never saw, or, did it, just heard of it.


Best,
Ted

Damascus,

Agree or not it's the best adhesive for the job currently available. I have never used it for a permanent repair or sold a gun with a shim. But there has been an ongoing discussion on expedient and low cost repairs. If the owner wishes to secure the shim with minimal tools or risk of heat it's the best solution. My sole point. Not advancing or promoting the method, simply an answer to the best way to bond a shim in place without silver or soft solder, a method that doesn't require the tools or skill.

No one has responded to my suggestion of steel laced acra-glass. Thoughts?

Harry Loctite is far from the best Adhesive currently available. I suggest to give the Masterbond USA web site a view. There Supreme 11HT there 2 part Epoxy will leave others in the shade if you want to use glue and no skill.
Also Silver solder temperature red heat is far to high it would destroy the shim. You may as well have the hook welded and have done with it.

Ive heard that during the Big One WW2, bald autmobile tire with holes worn through was still useble by cutting beads off another bald tire and use it as liner inside outer tire,and pumped up tube holds them together

I've had a couple guns, a Fox and an Ithaca field grade guns that had slightly loose actions. I fitted the hooks with steel shim stock from a pump company's machine shop. Cleaned the hooks and applied Loctite 609 or 638 retaining compounds. I only used 1 thousanths (0.001) shims. I worked without having to attend to the extractor for fit.

Just a touch of movement would probably indicate about a thou off the hook. Measuring the face, you might not even get that.

Question is, is it even worth getting the .001 gap tightened? I prefer spray welded fixes when possible.

I guess if you were shooting cases of shells you might wear the hook out on a loose action!

Any looseness at all, with the forend off, is a problem to me, and should be dealt with, IMO. Once looseness is observed, I believe the problem is magnified quickly by continuing to shoot a gun in such condition. I have two guns right now that I have dealt with by shimming the hook. One is a BSS which I use a lot for clays in S X S competition and also for duck hunting with factory 1 1/4 oz. loads. By the time I noticed the BSS was loose it would "accept" a .003" shim and still close, albeit very snugly. The Hollis side lock has been loose for much longer and has never seen anything over 7/8 oz. loads in my keeping, but also accepted the .003" shim with the same resulting snugness.

I will probably have the BSS welded and fixed properly eventually, as it gets used a lot. I'm really just curious as to how long the HVAC tape aluminum shim will last before having it done, and have not decided on a 'smith to do the work anyway. It remains to be seen what I do with the Hollis, a 2 1/2" chambered gun that gets used very, very little. But, one thing is for certain ..........neither will ever be shot again without being tightened, by shim or by proper repair.

SRH

Llittle Creek,
You have a point. Most of my guns only get a few boxes a year put through them. Others may shoot a lot more than me though the same gun.

How many of you would sell a gun with a shim on it? Why not have it fixed correctly and be done with it?

Because the repair might be worth more than the gun?

The article in DGJ, on the subject of Ithaca doubles, noted the gent had purchased the Nitro Special for $25, for express use as a waterfowl gun. As you can imagine, said gun was a ways off "pristine" condition, which, didn't matter to the buyer, for his use. Waterfowling is usually hard use for a gun.

The shim was put in place, and left there for a period of perhaps a decade, using typical hot waterfowl loads of the 1960s. The gun was sold to the next owner, with the shim in place, and next owner had full knowledge of the "repair" and how long it had been used, and how.
It was still being used like that when the article was written. There were a lot of years gone by since the brass shim had been fitted to the hook.
Not every gun needs to have a state of the art repair to it's pin. Many will function just fine for many years with a shim repair, and if the next owner is content to use it the same way, and has knowledge of the shim, what is the hurt?

Best,
Ted

I see no problem with a shim if done properly. I think there is a negative connotation around shim because people use all sorts of things i.e.. paper, aluminum cans, and perhaps try to sell a gun with such a crude repair.

If you get a steel shim, solder it in and check the bearing surfaces of the barrels to receiver I think it is a permanent fix no better or worse than replacing a pin or welding up the hook.

What do you use for a heat source when soldering a shim?

Wouldn't that depend on the shim material and type of solder?

It doesn't cost that much for a hook repair/spray weld. I have seen prices up to $250. I paid around $100 for each of two guns. Of course, shipping from Alaska, where I live, is another expense...add another $100.

Beer cans are cheaper, I'll admit...plus you get to use them twice...