I recently experienced an irrationally exuberant desire for this 1925 Remington 17 full choke 28" barrel
(20 gauge, of course):





It will join its younger, full choke, checkered cousin, from 1931:





I would very much appreciate someone explaining why I got either of these

Sweet gun, pump like bearings
Well done, now SHOOT them and report back
Nice DOUBLE

The specimen from 1931 shoots flat, straight and even, with little perceived recoil.

The one from 1925 is on its way to the local FFL

I know why you bought them. They were reasonable priced, well made, fun, guns. If you wanted to fit in you'd be at Crapbellas buying a Bernellie SuperMax 3 1/2" shadow grass camo, semi auto for about two grand. Instead you bought a well made, high quality gun which is both a pleasure to carry and easy to shoot well. It is the same reason I bought Ithaca 37's, Solid ribbed in 12, 16 and 20 gauge in the last year. When I break 25 straight in Skeet, from low gun, with that 20 ga. full choke I get to smile at the K80's not taking two at low eight on the same squad. Life is good indeed.

Well done!

Because they are a hoot to shoot. A week or two ago I was heading from Wisconsin to South Dakota and pulled off for coffee. I was on a deadline to make it there before dark. As I pulled off the exit the coffee was to the left and a cabelas was off to the right. I wavered but Cabelas was pulling me for some reason. I found the outside racks and they were giving them away for low prices. I could not resist a Win 1897 with 32" barrels and a Rem 31L with 30" barrels. Both 12g. I never saw a 31L (light) before and it was 6lbs 2 oz. and almost brand new. They discounted them further and I bought two new $10 soft cases and was out of there in an hour. Never got the coffee.

From a European perspective, American classic pump shotguns have the same mystique and "exotic" air as European doubles have in the US (judging by what is written in this and other venues).

As for the art side of things, there is an obvious, to me anyway, Art Deco element in a classic pump that rivals the Art Nouveau influence of a classic double. Just look at the pics for confirmation.

I do not own a pump, by the way. If a Stevens 620 in 20 gauge comes my way though I would not hesitate.

I've always been tempted to have my 16ga Savage 520 pump engraved in the fashion of an old style Browning Sweet 16. It always gets attention at a dove shoot and my story is its a rare sweet 16 pumpgun...Geo

As I understand it, the Rem 17 is the "Daddy" of the Ithaca 37. That's a good enough reason to have one. Slick American invention that does what it was made to do. Beautifully.

Well, it was designed by John Moses....

I own a Stevens 620 in 20 gauge! I love the take-down design. I think I paid about $125 for it. Neat little thing and far lighter than the 520/620 variants in 16 or 12 gauge. It is my only hunting pump gun.

Why, you obviously DESERVED them, silly........

I, too, really like (relatively) long barreled ribless pumpguns - I've long had a like-pattern 20ga Ithaca M-37 Deluxe I bought new in the mid-70's.

They can take a licking & keep on ticking !

I also like the "condition" of those two.

Congrats !


.

its what gun nuts do

Not sure what the cause is. Or the cure. In fact I'm not conviced a cure is needed.

All 28" barrels in 20ga.




I favor the doubles, but...

John

Clickety-Clack. Don’t look back. Two additions since the family photo; 1939 M37 20 and 1942 37R 20 which are in the third and second photos along with the same M17. The close-ups are of the 1939 M37 20 showing its high gloss bluing of the earlier guns and the hand-chased engraving. The roller engraving set-up was initially faulty, rather than discard the receivers, the Ithaca shop engravers finished the engraving by hand so that the guns could be sold. Last photo is a close-up of the 20 ga. 1942 M37R's forend.

These are better than many mass-produced clunker SxS sometimes discussed here. I will not mention any names because I do not want to offend anyone particular. Some years ago I missed good one by buying in its stead 20ga Ithaca Ultrafeatherweight 25" IC gun with straight grip stock and grooved wood butt. The Remington was used, but in real good shape while Ithaca was unblemished and as new both w/in $25 of each other. The Remington had long barrel with integral to barrel solid rib and wonderful IC Cyl choke. I call those old long-barrel IC guns "shot and pumpkin ball guns" because they could be used for both birds and medium sized game when loaded with right ammo, just precious. Previous owner took real good take care of it precisely fitting home made butt plate to replace original which war proly broken. Should have carried on that tradition instead of buying something w/o history hunting trips to "tell". Should have bought the Model 17 it was better gun and I would probably still have it. The sub 6lb 37 is long gone. Live and learn.

John E.

I am envious. The one 520 I handled was the smoothest pump action ever.

The second 17 (1924 not 1925)is now in the fold

1924 6 lbs 0.2 oz
1931 6 lbs 0.8 oz
28 inch barrels, full choke

Enough with the pump guns, though nice not here, please

Feel free to use this system to discuss your doubles, drillings, combination guns, other fine firearms, and related material. The rules are really simple: Stay on the subject matter, keep it clean, and contribute answers when you can!

The ownership of this site has posted these very simple rules to abide by when using the board. I will point you to the part that says "feel free to use this system to discuss your doubles, drillings, combination guns, OTHER FINE FIREARMS AND RELATED MATERIAL.

Perhaps you should make a note of it.


Best,
Ted

C'mon Ted, it's not like they're synthetic 870s. Pre-war pumpers can be pretty nice too (as you well know).

Actually, Lloyd, I was pointing out that "other fine guns" would appear to leave a good bit of latitude for discussion.

And, that nobody from Kansas had been annointed an administrator, as of yet.


Best,
Ted

I stand corrected on my misinterpretation of of the website’s focus, and apologize for the diversion.

I do agree the older Ithaca 37 is a good gun.

damn.....don't ever give in to Ted....even when theres an outside chance hes right....his heads already big enough....

Old Colonel: Very gracious of you Sir, thank you. A few truly well-made old pumpers were and are very good bird guns. It keeps things fun here to see them in the hands of folks who appreciate them.

Besides, it's Veterans Day. Thanks much for your service o c. Some things might be interesting, but maybe not so important.

I also enjoy the pump-gun threads here. There's no "off topic" forum nowadays, and most of us are not completely single minded individuals. I can talk doubleguns, pumps, A-5 autoloaders, single shots, and even rifles a little...Geo

Shotgunlover: Very well put (& the first time I've ever heard it described thus!). They DO look a bit art-deco:



They certainly scream 1930s.

The forum is important to me as a source of information and opinions about all sporting long guns, an amazing amalgam of generosity and professionalism, knowledge and curiosity, that enriches my life. The forum really got me into doubles although I'm mostly a rifle man.

Even I have fallen victim to the p.g. bug. That very 20 ga. model 30 will be on it's way from CO to GA, to do service in the dove fields, in a few days. Thanks, Lloyd.

SRH

King

Fire your editor.

Pies and cannoli and ravioli enrich my life.

Battle of the Titans aboot to start. Buffalo Vs Kwee-beckers. Should be good.

HNIC


_________________________
Ithaca 37

Be careful Stan, as Gil might testify, they tend to multiply:

16s:



20s:



The history of these guns is fascinating, and yet there is not one place where you can read about their collective evolution. You must ferret it out from several sources. What I learned is that before serious mass-production (post WWII) we made some really neat guns here, and....that a good bird gun does not have to be prohibitively expensive. All these sub-gauge guns are in the six pound range and if they fit you well (south-paws are at a bit of a disadvantage here), you can be quite effective with them. I believe the gentlemen's magazines of the period referred to them as "game destroyers".

Even the 12s are quite effective:



Love that take-down.

I really love the old pump 16 gauge guns. My model 12's are surgeons in the woods

Can you explain why a southpaw is at a disadvantage in regards to gun fit when using a vintage pump? I shoot my vintage pumps better than any of my other shotguns...I’m a southpaw. I went 14 for 14 this year on sharptails using a 1936 Winchester Model 12 solid rib 16 gauge. As far as I know...most vintage American made repeaters and autos are stocked neutral

Some clearly fit me better than the others. Different geometry, different drops, etc., all have a slightly different feel certainly, but it's the safeties that distract me and slow me down the most. That could be overcome with time and practice I suppose, but......in the end I prefer a double. If I were right-handed, it would be a much tougher choice.

My 1936 16 gauge Solid Rib Skeet

You obviously can shoot yours. However, your model 12 and most other pumps (excepting the bottom dumpers) throw the ejected shell across your face and field of vision. Right handed jammomatics of course do the same thing...Geo

Geo. with all do respect...that’s complete hogwash about the shells being thrown across my face and field of vision...I’ve NEVER seen the shell eject out of one of my guns...ever. I seriously doubt anyone else has either. Even if I have seen the shell subconsciously...it happened so fast that I never truly noticed. The ONLY issue I’ve ever had was with a Remmy 1100 that used to spit powder out of the ejection port or gas port (it came from somewhere?) and it would sometimes get into my eye. That’s it. That kind of rubbish is a pure eye roller, especially when your including automatic pistol shooting or shooting an automatic rifle. Never even see the case ejecting. If you do...you’re doing something wrong...like not focusing on the target.

That's probably why you shoot your model 12 so well. I shoot right handed and I've tried a lefty auto, and I see'em...Geo

wrong location deleted

terc, I think you got this in the wrong thread.

Lefty friendly pumps:



I don't know who produced the lefty safety for the model 17 Remington pump, it is a different part than the one in an Ithaca 37. A guy in northern MN, active on the 16 gauge website bought a gun with it installed. I traded my righty for his lefty. It is identicle to the Remington produced safety except it is mirror image, tool marks in the same spots. I have two barrels for this gun, one can often simply switch barrels on the Remingtons, something not often possible on the later Ithaca 37s.

The Winchester 1912 has a Williams "Big Button" safety installed. I like this safety, and have a similar version in my Ruger 44 magnum carbine. This was my Uncles "barn gun", from about the start of the great depression until perhaps 1978. It looked like it, too, my hands got rusty when I handled it. It has new blue and wood, and isn't a collector, but, I never understood the words "collector" and "pump" being used in the same sentence, anyway.

I never see spent shells on guns since my right eye is closed, being crosseye dominant. My model 17 and 1912 are righthand unfriendly at this point.

Best,
Ted

When you're really focused on a target you don't tend to be too-distracted by the ejected shells, but I do see them as a minor handicap. Funny that LeFusil had an autoloader that spit in his eyes, I did too....big distraction!

My late uncle would have warned anyone, Never Ever shoot a Remington model 11 left handed with a pipe in your mouth.

Stevens Model 620 in 20 gauge

Fun little take-down gun I was able to pick up for $125.

Since H&R stopped their barrel program I sold my single shot and went looking for a beater Model 21 or NID in 12 gauge. I couldn't find one around here so after all the Black Diamond Grades and Heavy Duck Model 12s were picked over by the 'Collectors' I settled on a beater Model 12.

I'm way more familiar with a double and would have preferred a double but what can you do?

That 620 is a great looking pump gun. Me, I'd just like to find a flat top 520 in twenty ga...Geo

KY; you made me smile!

Geo.,

I completely agree. I wish it was the flat top. I'm not wild about double humps, but the flat top is graceful.

I've never seen the empty shell when shooting a pump or semi-auto either. But I bought an unusual pistol a couple months ago. It is a Wamo Targetmaster single shot .22 rimfire that was built by the Wham-o Toy Co. Only a few thousand were built, and Wham-o will deny ever building a cartridge firing gun. But there are ads from the early 1950's clearly depicting this gun along with Hula-Hoops, Frisbee's, Sling-shots, etc. It is a delayed blow-back single shot design that fires with an unlocked bolt. Upon firing, I never see the spent shell casing which ejects straight up across my line of sight, but the empty case often lands directly on top of my head.

The only one I seen spent casings was with uncommon Wingmaster Supermag shooting 2&3/4" cartridges. Unless one worked the slide smartly the empty would just roll off from ejection port. It was due to long ejection port in relation length of spent casing. Other repeaters did not present this tendency. Did not have enough testicles to pull tripper on 3.5" shell as the gun weight was about 7lb and solid brown recoil pad had softness of rubber mallet or car bumper.

Those old Remington, Winchester, Ithaca or JMB designed pumps from other manufacturers were quality guns made during times that will never come back just like there will be no 10c candy bars even if those come from Vietnam, India or North Korea.

Agree with George (though I surely like the 520), but the "Flat Top" (520A) has a tang safety and shooting left handed as I do....
Best to all

Berrien