Some turk keeps hacking the Parker Gun Collectors site in the name of Islam - as if I need one more reason to hate these pukes.

Dave how about deleting this one?

So hacking sites is okay if Christians do it? I know Turks and Muslims who are not pukes. And Christians who are. Maybe the problem is the simple fact that there are some pukes in every nation and every religion. Meanwhile, I agree with Mike on canning this thread.

I'll third that suggestion

Brent

When and where did you see that? If you haven't seen what he is referring to, it is clearly an attempt to emulate terrorist propaganda (or may be the real thing for that matter). I've never seen anyone else, Christian or otherwise, hack a site to proclaim death to all who aren't part of their religion. And since most Parker BBS folks frequent this site, it seems like a good warning. I don't know what kind of virus I may have picked up by going there. I wouldn't recommend going there until Greg gets it straightened out. It's a good heads-up and if those who have already have been there wind up with viruses, you can thank CParker for you avoiding it. I honestly can't see why anyone would take issue with his post. He never said that ALL of any group were anything, but the ones who act like this are responsible for more death and misery in this world right now than any other group and to act otherwise is to invite more of the same. I know other groups have been responsible for atrocities but right now this is at the top of the heap and will continue to be until it is dealt with.

vh20. You know that this individual/group is actually Muslim how? It's very easy to stir up hate and discontent by committing an act and them laying the blame on others. Before you ask what they have to gain by doing this, some people get off on the hate part.

Oh, lighten up. The world seems bent on coddling to the Muslim population...God forbid (Allah forbid?) we insult anyone.

Of course we don't know it was a Muslim and shouldn't blame them. But let's not bend over backwards at the slightest suggestion that someone is tossing a little crap at them.

Whos bending over backwards. I just don't think that this thread is appropriate. We could always do nothing and let the site degenerate.

Ethnic bigotry and religious hatred have no place in this forum - - reason enough to shut it down.

Mike,

I believe I said "an attempt to emulate...OR the real thing". Therefore, I included the possibility of the fakery you suggest in my post. However, since it IS the m.o. of terrorism, if we were in Vegas right now I know where I'd put my money. Anyway, it's really not the focus of my post. The main point is that the original post is a prudent warning since many people frequent both sites (here and PGCA) and it may save your computer from a virus. I think it should stay.

Fair enough. I'd bet it's some kid in New Jersey anyway.

The warning might be valid I don't think that the way it was presented was.

. . . or, some guy in Texas, or wherever.

The Turks are making and marketing their own doubles now. Of course they're going to attack a Parker site, just using religion as a cover for good old Middle Eastern capitalism.

God forbid that one of "us" should insult a Muslim! They might not like us anymore! As to bending over backwards to accomodate them, I'd worry more about bending over forwards. Who the hell do you think is causing the chaos in the world right now, us?
If anything in our ways is contributing to the problems it IS the political correctness crap. GROW UP!

Naw, they wouldn't do that...... now would they?
It's been peace & love mates!

my 2 cents. We are at war. We are at war with Muslims. If you think it isint a religous war, think again. They hate our way of life, our country , our god and us. That is the way of Jihad. A number of Imams (religous leaders) issued fatwahs against the west and the US in particular.

Back in WW2 we had all kinds of names and hatred for our enemies. Were all Japanese and germans evil fascists/nazis etc? No, of course not. But we identified the foe and kept him in our head as the enemy. Makes it easier for a soldier to kill the enemy when they view them as less than human. Oops, I said kill. Hmmm, thats what wars do.

Name a major Islamic leader who has come out condemming the violence precipitated by Muslim extrememists? When, where?? A generalization you might say but seems like most of the terrorism, violence and barbarism in the world today isnt being done by Christians. Thats just a fact.

So because he wants to say what he said about the webiste we cringe, and then wrap our arms around the nearest Muslim to repent for our feelings???? Come on now.

Does this whole discussion belong on this site? I dont know. We have gone off on some serious tangents before and they ran on and on. If you dont like the thread, dont read it or foster its longevity.

As for me, I knwo who the enemy is and will call them as I see them.

Brian knows of what he speaks.

I'll 'second' what Jim Legg just had to say....

Some years back when all of this Islamic discontent first began to flare up, I took the time to read a literal English translation of the entire Koran (or Quran' for you 'PC' types)- all four hundred and thirty-five pages of it. All that I'll say is to advise those of you that haven't, to do so if you have the chance. It's only about $14 bucks worth at your local bookstore, and it will go a very long ways in explaining what you are witnessing today. Ex. As in why a 'voice' has generally not been forthcoming from the 'moderate' Muslim community condemning mob violence/terrorist acts/etc.

As for CParker's initial post re: the PGCA site, I'm appreciative for the'heads-up', if it's a legitimate concern.....



Rob Harris

I try not to venture into these sorts of debates; I'm normally here to talk guns. But...
I'm not sure blame games help us. Who started it? Have a look at the great middle eastern carve ups by the allies following WWI. Have a look at the tussle between Russia and England in the late 19th C. Have a look at who the CIA has supported in the past 30-40 years, and then wonder why US and allied servicemen are being sniped at with .50 Barrets in those places...
Who started it? When? It might be a bit too simplistic to say they did, when inter-generational circumstance and post-colonial legacies have bred deep seated hatreds of us and our way of life.
RG

Let's not forget that there are a lot of very good and brave Moslems fighting along side our men in Iraq and I suspect more friendly Moslem lives are being lost in this war than are American lives.

As in Vietnam, while it was true our enemies were Vietnamese, so were our friends. This war and the world today are more complicated than World War 2 and the world of the 1930-40s. Today, political and religious beliefs cross national boundaries.

In our war against domestic terrorism, our best sources of information can come from patriotic and decent American Moslems; so let's not hate those who can be the most helpful to our nation.

If we fail to make the distinction between good and bad Moslems, we create the religious war the radical Moslems seek and we help our enemies unite the Moslem community in a way our enemies have been unable to do. Our nation and the world would become less secure and beyond our ability to secure. Our Bill of Rights is our greatest strength and the best tool we have to secure our nation and those rights, which include tolerance of religious beliefs along with other treasured rights enjoyed by us on this forum (right to keep and bear arms and freedom of speech). As we are all strong proponents of the right to keep and bear arms, we should be equally vigilant over the other protections.

We need not make this a religious war and we can think in traditional terms of national conflict. The war we are fighting now is one against the Islamic Republic of Iran, a nation that is the single greatest sponsor of terrorism and supporter of radical Islam and one that for over a quarter of a century has chanted "death to America." I believe that our wars in Afghanistan and Iraq are tactical stepping-stones to taking down the Islamic Republic of Iran. To polarize all of Islam against the United States is the only way that Iran can defeat us. Let's not help them.

Doug

Cadet, ever think about a teaching position at a private all-girls school.
This stuff would go over really big, I tell you!
...and dbadcraig!
Do you think guys who blow themselves up...snitch on each other?

Excellent post Doug.

Brent

I'm not quite sure I follow you Lowell - "go over really big"? Do you mean they'd love it 'cos it's such a complex and murky situation, and girls are into complex and murky games?! or they'd hate it 'cos of the fundamentalist muslim attitude to women and the complex murky question of who started it looks to much like the pronouncements of a moderate apologist/appeaser?; I happen to be a teacher - but in a public co-ed school. I get along quite well with most of my students!
RG

Think of a classroom filled with Paris Hiltons!
I bet they blame someone else too!

[quote=Lowell ...and dbadcraig, do you know the words to, "We are the World."
Do you think guys who blow themselves up...snitch on each other?
[/quote]

Lowell-

No, I don't know the words to "We are the World," but then I am not very musical.

I am no such fool to think our enemies will inform on one another. The point I was trying to make and apparently not clearly enough, is that all the followers of Islam are not our enemy unless we chose make them our enemy and if we do so, we have "taken the bait."

Speaking of what I know, while I am weak on lyrics, what I do know (and for a fact as one who has devoted my life to public service and sworn to protect and defend our Constitution and form of government for over 2 decades and counting), is that human intelligence is our most valuable asset in this war and many of our most valuable assets at home and abroad, include Moslems.

Doug

Where you guys been the Muslins are already polarized....what we need is a President that will show them the meaning of Kentucky fried.

Well, I am still upset about Sherman marching throught Ga. which caused my ancestors to leave. And I am less fond of MUslims from what I have seen. I really dont understand how anyone can defend them as they seem to enjoy killing Christians as well as other Muslims ???

Like Hillary or the Breck Girl? We've only had two presidents who stood up to them. They also have the same last name. Is that news to you?

Looks like PGCA BBS is back up and running. No word from Greg yet on how it happened. Looks safe to go there again.

Where are all the Islamic moderates you say?
We've been waiting for them to stand and be counted.
Pretty nil at this point.
I think we've along wait ahead of us - maybe never!

If Muslims are such good people, in general, why haven't they cleaned up their own house? Where is the Muslim outrage? Why haven't they handed over Bin Laden?

Iraq Security Forces Deaths: 7,247
US Armed Forces Deaths: 3,618

You want numbers, how about those who have been cut down and been counted? Good men are dying in this war and they are both Christians and Moslems. Hate them or honor them as you wish, but only a fool makes a larger war than necessary for their soldiers or makes war against their friends. By the way, the UK has lost a total of 159 soldiers.

http://www.icasualties.org/oif/

I'm sorry that I posted that insensitive message that started this discussion, I wish I wouldn't have. HOWEVER, the message that was posted in place of the Parker web site was in-your-face jihadist crap and I hate it. Also, I hate hackers who spoil the internet. These guys are not content to randomly blow up women and children... now they have to foist their message of world domination to a bunch of old men who want to chat about antique shotguns. I know this is not the place to complain about it so I'll restrict my posted to double gun issues.

Thanks for the great site Dave.

Here's my opinion of all the good Muslims in Iraq and the region - if Bin Laden loses, they all hated him. If he wins, they'll not mind reaping the benefits.

It's a little like Hitler - in 1946 you couldn't find a single solitary German who had supported him.

Or Richard Nixon...he won by a landslide in the election but the day after he was impeached not a soul alive had voted for him.

Anybody that would get touchy feely about some muslim hacking an antique gun website needs to check their scat for an overdose of hippie granola. Come on guys, we're at war with these people. It's fine to talk bad about them. I'm ready to join right in!


Destry

"Or Richard Nixon...he won by a landslide in the election but the day after he was impeached not a soul alive had voted for him."

Some facts: Richard Nixon was not impeached. He resigned.
Slick Willy WAS impeached. But he was not removed from office, as he should have been.

I voted for Nixon. I also voted for Jimmuh Cahtuh. Can't be right every time!

Soooooo........what ya'll think about that new RBL? OOOOps wrong thread!

Regarding Iran, they were marginalized by Iraq until we took out Saddam. That's why the US supported Saddam in the first place and whey we left him in power after the first gulf war. He served many of our interests. He suppressed the Islamic fundamentalists (who were a threat to him) and kept Iran at bay.

I'd take him back in a minute, contain him from expanding west and let him continue to run Iraq and serve our interests. Oh, by the way, his system of governing Iraq was brutal and inhumane, but it worked.

Jeff

[quote]... now they have to foist their message of world domination to a bunch of old men who want to chat about antique shotguns.

Now thems fightin words. Callin the Parker boyz a bunch of "ole men". We don't just chat about our guns. We clean 'em, wax 'em, wipe 'em down, oil 'em up and only handle 'em by the wood!! TPS is our bible. Turkish walnut sucks!

I'm one of the old men that I was referring to (I'm not 50 yet but old enough). I shoot, clean, wax, etc too but when some SOB puts his extemist crap in the way of me chatting about said cleaning, waxing ect. I get PO'ed. I didn't mean to pick on Turks, or their walnut, its just that the jackass that hi-jacked the site identified himself as such.

I don't think you need apoligize to anyone. (I'm one of your Old
Men too)Right now I'm declaring a personal Fatwah against UPS and their agent!

I still subscribe to the old motto "Kill them all and let God sort them out!" If we turned the whole Middle East into one big sheet of glass I could care less. They'd do the same here if they had the technology. Make no mistake about it the Moslems want us all dead. The only reason that some fight "on our side" is the Shiites and Sunnis hate each other more than they hate us. There's no such thing as a "moderate" Moslem. We're all infidels in their eyes and need to be eliminated according to their prophet.
Jim

As for me, at 71 years of age, I can live with Christians, Bhuddists, Jews, and secularists. I'd send a message to Muslims: next attack on our homeland and Medina and Mecca will be transformed into a sheet of glass three feet thick and many millions of innocents will be vaporized. They started this crap and we know how to end it. Hilary et al pandering to them proves what a bunch of traitorous pukes most of our politicians are. The immigration issue has shown us that they are more interested in gaining votes for their parties (Dems and Republicans) than they are for the sovernty of the American people. Chops with no apologies.

Only way to stop them is to put them back on Camels.

I lived and worked in a Muslim country for a couple years. My wife worked in the US Embassy with me; my daughter was raised by a Muslim woman. (Had you not known she was a Muslim, she might well have been identified by her behavior as "a good Christian woman" in many parts of this country.) So I may have a somewhat different view of Muslims in general than some folks who have had less contact with them.

We demonized the Germans and the Japanese during WWII, but we were at war with Germany and Japan. We are not at war with the entire Muslim world. Big difference. We are at war with radical Islamism. Everyone says "the Koran says they should kill us". That is NOT one of the pillars of the faith. And if you look at what's happening in Iraq (and elsewhere in the Muslim world), you have Muslims killing Muslims--which is forbidden in the Koran. So what we're dealing with is a perversion of their religion. (We've seen it in Christianity as well, just not recently nor on as large a scale. But the Klan is a perversion of Christianity, and Christians did a great job of slaughtering other Christians--told by their Christian leaders to do so--during the wars of religion in Europe, right after the Reformation.)

You might want to take a look at what Musharraf has done recently in Pakistan if you don't think any Muslims are standing up to the radicals. Note that in Iraq, the tribal leaders in Anbar haved turned against Al Qaeda. There have been attacks by AQ or its affiliates in countries like Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan, and Morocco--against other Muslims. We should consider ourselves lucky that the idiot Islamists continue to shoot themselves in the foot by attacking their own people as well as us.

But the most important point to remember is . . . Parkers are better shotguns than the stuff made in Turkey, which means the Parker guys can defend themselves quite well.

Only good religious extremist is a dead religious extremist...be it Muslin, Christian or Atheist.

Chopperlump - I have been saying the same thing for years. All the Arab countries fully support the terrorists, and the Saudis are by far the worst. We could end this entire thing simply by telling all the Arab governments that the next outrage (not only against the US, but Britain, Europe, Israel) would result in the instant evaporation of Mecca and Medina. That would not take out any 'infidels' and would serve to effectively focus the Arabs' attention on behaving nicely in the world.

Good and honorable men come from all races and religions.

This topic has gone way south and is now locked.