Since this question seems to have fallen victim to “lead poisoning” 😉 over in the “Simon says” thread, I’ll raise it here in a new one.

I don’t doubt that Simon Reinhold knows his way around side by sides. He is the current SxS champion in UK. (If one of our British brothers will give me the exact wording of his title I’ll gladly update this.). In the most recent TGS video he asserts (@ 5:20f) that “Muzzle flip with a side by side is down not up.”? I have to say I’m in Ant’s camp on this one, “Doesn’t seem so.”

Could some of you with a physics backgrounds expound on this?

No physics from me brother. It was a miracle that I pulled off a B in Physics 101 at Mizzou. Just keep repeating "It's vectors"

From Peter Blakeley "Successful Shotgunning"



Slow motion SxS, O/U and repeater recoil (I've always learned best with pictures) I don't see much deflection down, but certainly laterally with recoil with the SxS

https://depositphotos.com/154090746/stock-video-clay-target-shooting-magic-with.html

Live action (the first minute) from the 1912 Stockholm Olympics. Not at a good angle to see any sideways flip, but I think there is a difference in the up-flip between the SxSs and the (oh the shame) repeaters

https://www.doublegunshop.com/forum...p;Board=1&main=27960&type=thread

https://shotgunreport.com/2016/04/06/barrel-flip/

amazing video...thank you...

if i am not mistaken, burrard explains downward muzzle vectoring in the initial portion of recoil....the first moment, as per physics.

best regards,

tom

This is from the thread I linked above
The "Flip" which Burrard discussed was not the rise from recoil. It rather was a downward flexing of the muzzles which occurred as a result of the inertia of the muzzles trying to stay stationary as the gun rose in recoil. This would offset to some extent the recoil rise causing the gun to hit lower than it otherwise would. This flip, flexing or bending of the bbl (call it what you will) is a different thing than recoil rise.

I have Vol. 3 of the 1948 edition of The Modern Shotgun and the discussion regarding "muzzle flip" is in Vol. 1 p. 223-227. He stated in Vol. 3 that short barrels gave a different "flip" than longer barrels and tended to shoot higher.

A SBT video and there is clearly a slight downward muzzle movement as the ejecta leaves, and before recoil rise

Thanks, Doc. Good stuff. I particularly enjoyed and learned from the ten year old discussion from this fine forum which you linked above. (BTW nice to read again some of Miller’s insight.).

I’m always ready to learn (at least I tell myself I am) and this has been a fascinating example of that. I don’t know how you and a few others have managed to figure out the search engine here but I’m glad you have.

It’s also been a while since I’ve read the good Major but your reference has spurred me to pull my set from the shelf and read what he has to say on this subject.

So my thoughts now on downward barrel flip (or flex) in SxS’s? I’ll hold on to my original position i.e. “Doesn’t seem so.” while now accepting that it most certainly does. 😎

I will only comment by referring interested parties to my post in the link that Drew provided. Adding only that my SxS and O/U have measured identical dimensions

https://www.doublegunshop.com/forum...p;Board=1&main=27960&type=thread

have a day

In reading Burrard on “barrel flip”, which he acknowledges is from an earlier article in Game and Gun, his analogy of a “fishing-rod” is helpful. When the rod is raised to set the hook, the tip initially dips or flexes downward just as the muzzle does on a SxS (which he calls an “ordinary gun”) as the breech raises after discharge and before the projectile(s) leave the barrel.

The analogy of a flyrod is wrong. Flyrod tips do not dip down when you lift the rod. It is an illusion caused by the curvature of the rod, not in fact, the tip going downwards.

For preciseness, my misstatement. He specifically says, “fishing-rod”. Sorry.

Still wrong.