now here is sum thin different an cool...

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/995042329

say you saw it here so dave gits paid...

What a the min wall thickness is it original chamber length what's the barrel wall thickness at the end of the chamber and in front of the chamber .this gun seems a light gun mabey the barrels have been honed did you confirm the chamber lenth? It might be invisible sleeved? I would think a buyer should beware until theses and many more questions are answered.

I am satisfied that you saw that the top lever is way over to the left calling into question the condition of the under locking bolt/rear barrel lump slot and whether the barrels are on face considering that the barrel flats look like they are completely down "banging against the action flats"

I think I would request it be sent to a qualified gunsmith to check it out he is asking quite a bit .and a no questions ask return policy is in order

"Nice tight action with no issues. Overall fine used condition...Wonderful to have such a rare little gun to sell. And the connection to admiral Holbrook is the icing on the cake"...*

*from sales listing on gb...

😂😂😂.

Different? Cool? Hardly.

Too short LOP (like so many vintage guns today), 26" barrels (normal for a .410), too little drop, lever to the left .........

Nothing different here, or cool. Same ol' same ol'. As ed said in the title of another of his posts , "Professional" (not) salesmanship.

thanks for pointing that out stan...your positive input is always appreciated...

may i suggest this little gun was made for an purchased for ah yute...

admiral holbrook's bio indicates he had two sons...

Then you are saying that it really wasn't the admirals gun but his children's ? We're his kids famous ? Now I am really confused about so called provenance.

Does someone think that they should send Holt's auction and tell them that they need to raise the estimate of this (see below) Wesley Richards .410 boxlock by £3,000 from the £1,000 to £1,500 because they are way too low.

https://auctions.holtsauctioneers.c...++1552+&refno=++199533&saletype=

Having said that, .410 doubles go pretty well at Holts these days.

With 28” barrels and a 15” stock I would not be surprised if the Westley Richards goes well over top estimate.

bush, interesting...looks very much like a bigger and heavier version of the 410 i am selling...

stan may like this one...

betcha it goes for a pretty penny, plus the cost of getting it here...

nice to know that the holbrook gun may have been made by wr...

i was figuring webley & scott...

waiting for someone to suggest that because admiral holbrook was a sailor who spent alotta time in tropical waters, that the wood on this cool little gun has been eaten up by sea worms and that it may well disintegrate when fired...

and then there is the barrel ringing hoax to consider...

There would be no reason for an admiral th to take his child's gun sailing

And no particular reason to assume that the Army and Navy gun might have been made by Westley Richards (unless the A&N records so indicate).

Mind you, as the gun at Holts has a T prefix to the serial number Westley Richards probably had it built by someone else in the Birmingham trade.

para, did a side by side image comparison....man, they shore do look similar to me...course the wr gun looks redone, whereas the a&n gun looks all original with no evidence of major rework...

however, it it my understanding that because w&s made so many guns for the a&n store, it is more likely to be a w&s product?

an then could wr have contracted with w&s for a lot of these little guns?

making then both indeed products of the w&s factory?

battle#63150906/15/23 09:56 PM



ed good
Sidelock

E
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,326
Likes: 75
nh mostly
at 5/5 pounds, both these guns may have very thin barrel walls, making them marginally safe for modern field loads...

do you have ability to provide barrel wall thickness measurements?

bore
battle#63156306/16/23 06:00 PM



ed good
Sidelock

E
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,326
Likes: 75
nh mostly
dis hole see nar rio dont seem like hits headin in thu di rection uv ah deal...

good luck sellin yo gons...

an let the buyer beware...

Last edited by ed good; 06/16/23 06:01 PM.
________________________________________keep it simple and keep it safe.

That's a mighty light gun at just over 4 lbs.. According to a resident expert (see above) it may have thin walls and would be marginally safe for modern field loads. "an let the buyer beware.."
It's a long road that doesn't turn...And this road is barely 2 weeks old.
Gil

gls, your post above seems convoluted...


pls do not trash this thread...

Perhaps you shouldn't have trashed battle's thread in his effort to sell his gun two weeks ago. Your own words are what you consider to be trash. I have never criticized a man's efforts to sell his gun like you did two weeks ago. Gil

why is askin for barrel wall thicknesses trash talken?...

You made a buyer beware statement EDD with absolutely no facts you implied the gun was light and must have thin barrels .you must be drunk or stupid.

Not mutually exclusive. Gil

buying a used gun is always a leap of faith...over unknown waters...

souns like sum of you guys aint got the cajones to even risk gettin yo little toesies wet...

ah got no use fur weasel like creatures who hide behind anonyminty...

an by the way do tell us what any of you require as minimum barrel wall thicknesses for 410 guns with 2 1/2 chambers...

bet none of you have a clue...

Id like to know what are the the min wall thicknesses on these barrels?

And what are the thicknesses at the eng of the chambers?

have rarely been asked those questions about a 410 from a serious buyer...knowing that you are a serious buyer and not one of those mentally ill mal contents who regularly trash my sales threads on this fine forum...

while i am gathering the answers to your questions, would you be so kind as to advise the guidelines you utilize to determine what barrel thicknesses would be acceptable to you...say, for this gun...

i am collecting data for a book an have little data on 410 barrel wall thickness guidelines from others...

thanks for your help...

Rarely shmarely, I'm asking. I actually have .410 ammo and no gun.

Just want to know the numbers. Will not buy without them.

so, it sounds like you do not have a standard for minimum barrel wall thicknesses for 410 guns, such as this one?

pls confirm that is correct...

and you may wish to take this private?

humm...

You might want to reevaluate your pricing structure

note, price now down to $3000...

such ah deal...

Still waiting for barrel thickness numbers and chokes too while you are about it. Still have ammo I'd like to shoot and no gun to shoot it in.

brent, not interested in doing business with you...

nor anyone else who choices to trash my threads here...

as to barrel wall thickness, a serious buyer knows what he is asking for and has a standard guide line...

if you are a serious buyer, contact me via pm and i will be glad to answer any of your questions...

I'm asking in public because I don't trust you to put up honest numbers. You said .090/.030 are your benchmarks. Well? What are they. Very simple ed. Just be honest.

Ed, it looks like you made the right call here. The Nutty Professor obviously never had any intention of buying this .410, or any other gun you have to sell. Why bother wasting even a nanosecond responding to a troll???

I know of exactly one guy who complained about the wall thickness on a gun he bought from you some years ago. And he said he decided to keep it even though you were willing to accept a return. He had bought the gun for his daughter, and kept it anyway.. So what sort of man would permit his own daughter to shoot a gun that had marginal barrels???

Sometimes we need to read between the lines to see the truth around here. And maybe there needs to be some more Moderation as well... When these trolls work to screw you out of a sale, they also screw Dave out of the $12.00 fee for that lost sale. But they don't give a crap.

Keith the reason asking edd for wall thickness he crashed another sale add and asked the same questions he had no intention of buying either ,then edd post on sale site about the amount of out of proof thin barreled guns coming from England so this English 410is fair game to ask the same question.

^^^^ what he said^^^^

I’ve never seen a .410 with thin walls. Not saying it never happened, but, seems like it is usually the exact opposite, and they are heavier than they need to be.

Best,
Ted

I've never seen one shot loose, either.

But ......... I'm trying.

my gunsmith gave this gun the once over and declared it ok for 2 1/2 , 1/2 oz. target loads...

yawn...

now 2800...

Still no numbers. You claim you believe in .090/.030. So what are they and how do you know?

detener por favor...

Aren't you the guy who used to defend Homeless jOe trashing for sale ads here. What's that i smell???? Why I think it's a whiff of hypocrisy!

Sorry for contributing to messing up your ad thread Ed.

Ed likes to discredit anyone else's sale ads but then gets defensive when those same questions are asked to him. Pot meet kettle.

I am DEFINITELY not defending Ed's behaviour on this forum. But in general, I am in favour of everyone not interested in whatever is for sale just not posting on for sale threads.

what back said...

I'm actually interested. But ed doesn't respond with the info.

Oh I hear you Brent. But you are an interested party. I’m speaking of everyone posting fir entertainment purposes. Including myself at this point. One forum I’m a member of doesn’t let anyone other than the OP post in a for sale ad. Any questions you need to pm the seller.

A smart way to run a classified system, but in this case, if I am going to deal with ed, I want it fully in the open.

cept you ain't gonna deal wid Ed ...ever...

That's fine. Obviously, you are hiding something. But I gave you the chance. You didn't get any bids on GB either. No small wonder.

well, you could be right, but den...

ah been ah hobby gun dealer fur over 30 years now...

wid over 1700 positive feedbacks on gunbroker...

one does not accure such a fine reputation by hiding things...

an speaking of hiding things...

you come to this fine forum under a phony name...

and as such, seem to delight in burdening us with your disingenious malcontented persona...

perhaps, you could give us a break and take your misery elsewhere...

those of us who come on this fine forum under our real names have our own issues to deal with and most likely have little interest in knowin bout yours...

Nothing phony about my name.

Now how about those numbers?

how bout you take a hike...and go play your weird obsessive game elsewhere...

Nope. How about you trying honesty for a change?

ah honestly refuse to do bidness wid malcontents and udders ah don like...

you is one o dem...

an brent, is yo last name really d?

if so, are you oriental of sum sort?

sum of my best friends are orientials...

ah really like orientials...

reminds me of ah oriental owl, i once knew...

her name was mae dawn...

hits an interesting story an sum what entertaining...

anyone wanna hear hit?

He is just asking a technical question,and you have asked the same question many times and brought to our collective attention the number of thin walled English guns on the market like you said buyer beware .30/90

No

Here is a refresher Ed...

https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=632008&page=1

That Tolley 20 bore went to a happy buyer in Alabama.

The Blanch 20 bore went to a high end dealer in Michigan.

well battle, as i expressed to you privately...

congrats on your sales...

anyway, this goes back about 50 years or so ago...so i will try to remember it as best i can...but pls dont fault me, if i dont get every little detail right...

it was early in the morning of a cool summer day, which means it was most likely late in august...me an ma was settled in an snoozin away, when all of a sudden...

ah hears this sound, that makes me think that ma might be catchin ah cold due to the cool weather an such...

but then ah realize that the snorin sound was comin from the outside, in the big oak in the back yard...

so ah throws open the sash...

and what to my wonder do i see, but...

the biggest damned owl ever...

ah mean like damn near three feet long, jes sittin there, with its fedders awl puffed up an awl...

well, now even ah knows that owls are vicious grouse killers that can wipe out ah whole flock of erm in a single night...

yah see...grouse like to roost in conifers...for you boys in se jawja, thems pine trees...

anyways, so what some times happens, is an owl swoops in silent an grabs ah sleepin bird, wid out disturbin the udders, an flys off silent, an then proceeds to eat just the brain, droppin the rest of the bird to the ground...

and then the murderin so an so, swoops in silent an grabs anudder sleepin bird an so on, an so on, until hes killed every damn one of erm...

once, when out bird huntin one frosty mornin in se ny state, i came upon ah scene of absolute horror...

there, scattered around a big norway spruce, were seven dead grouse...

all undisturbed, cept they were all dead an all missin their heads...

owls are sometimes called silent death for good reason...

so bein the good citizen an conservationist that i am, ah quickly reached under the bed an retrieved my trusty model 12, equipped with poychoke and drew ah bead on that murderin so an so...

an jes before i pulled the trigger...

hit looks me in the eye an mudders...

buenos dias, senor...

well, ah swan...

ah aint neva heared no bird, cept mebbe ah crow or ah parrot talk like that...

need less to say...

but ah will hit any hows...

ah was takin ah back...

an then bout this time ma wakes up an ax...

who you talkin to out the winder?...

so, what am i gonna say?..

so i tells the truth...

hit aint nobody, ah says to ma, jest sum damn owl tellin me to have ah nice day...

wid that she shakes her head an rolls over an goes back to sleep...

so, ah casually peeks out the winder agin...

an yep, you guessed hit...

hit was still there, big as brass...

an this time hit looks me straight into my eyes, like nuttin ah ever seen before...

an ah swear, hit was smilin...

course, you probaby askin, how can an owl smile?

well, ah dont rightly know needer...

nor do ah wanna know cause that aint the point o this story...

which i am yet to fully decide on any how...

to be continyaed...

well, the a&n 410 is sold. despite all of the negativity put forth by certain mal contents who inhabit this once fine forum...

fact is, buyer says he used to be a member here, but there are too many aholes here for him to participate anymore...sad, because he is a knowledgeable double gun hobbist who could add valuable knowledge to the double gun database found here...

and that is the real tragedy of the failure of some members here, who put their negative agenda ahead of the value of encouraging others to share their doublegon knowledge here...

the aholes are driving the good guys...away...

ed, listen to yourself once in a while.

too bad you screwed that guy, whomever he was.

follow up...

new owner of the holbrook 410 is very pleased with this fine gun...