doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion Classic & Custom Single Barreled Sporting Rifles @ doublegunshop.com Classic .22LR revolvers?

Guys, I finally got my NYS pistol permit, bit of a process but worth the wait.

I find my taste in guns runs along the same lines as the company of this particular board so what better place to ask for advice?

I have an itch for a classic .22LR revolver to train, target shoot and plink with. Wood and blue, 6-8" barrels, preferably at least 50 years old. I have done a quick survey and the choices seem limited, but not terribly so. I would appreciate opinions on your experiences with the following guns and any other you think I might consider.

Colt's...
Officers Model and variations (Match, Target)
Official Police (pre & post war, different issues)
Police Positive
Diamondback (I know not quite 50 years old but gets good press)

S&W's

22/32 Hand ejectors (Bekeart)
K-22 Outdoorsman
K-22 Masterpiece (I'm told the 1940-1957 are the best ones)
Early Model 35 (the 22/32 Target Model of 1953)

I will be keeping a lookout for single shots but until then one of these will have to do. Feel free to give me advice on what I should expect to pay for a clean shooter.


thanks,

Rob

If you want accuracy, find an H & R Ultra Sportsman. It is essentially the USRA with a cylinder. Do not confuse it with the readily available Sportsman. Grips will be one of many Roper styles, as on the USRA.

Terry, is this what you are referring to? Methinks I want something a bit more traditional in appearance...

That is it.

I have a 1947 S & W Mod. 17, 6 inch and I'm not sure but I belive it's one of the K-22's you list. I would recommend it highly. Fine revolver.

Here is a 1933 Colt OP that I picked up years ago at an auction,
Locks up tight as a bank vault,action as smooth as a Python and great fun to shoot.
Can't count the number of non gun folks I have converted with just a few rounds of plinking with this a a Winchester 62.

Rob, you have an outstanding list to pick from. Winners, all.

I have a Colt Trooper III, 6" in .22 LR that is not too shabby.

For a Single Action, I like my Colt New Frontier .22.

Although many seem to favor the S&W K-frames over the Colt Officer's Models, I've owned several of the latter and really thought they were the nicest double action revolvers I ever owned. For target shooting, the best of the lot is probably the Officers Model Match, which has the fully adjustable micro-style sights. It's not necessarily better fit or finished than the Officers Model Target or Officers Model Special (a very short term variation with an odd rear sight dovetailed into the rear of the frame), but the sights are a far better design. The early ones (the first OMM was produced in 1953 if I recall correctly) are extremely well finished. The last ones (1968) weren't quite as well polished. In any case, they are full sized, hand filling revolvers that are more accurate than most people can shoot, even off a rest.

The Officers Models all have the same action design as the Python, which is the Colt double action revolver of legend. The Troopers, which are not quite as well finished, but are quite nicely finished inside, do as well, but not the Trooper III or Trooper V, both of which have coil springs, as I remember.

I have owned 4 inch Troopers in both .22 and .357 and do regret selling them to finance some shotgun purchase of one kind or another. The best single action trigger pull I ever found on a Colt double action revolver was on that Trooper 4 inch .357. It gave me a complete understanding of what a trigger that "broke like a glass rod" really meant.

As an aside, if you stumble across an Officers Model Match in .22 Magnum, buy it. They are quite rare (maybe 1200 manufactured over the life of the model).

Good to see you over at S&W Rob!
As for your list, I'm working on ALL of the S&W's you mentions. Just bought a 1947 version of the K-22 and am selling the 70's model to finance. Have a 1936 vintage Outdoorsman, 4" Kit Gun, also a cut-down 22/32 a M-42 auto and a Colt Huntsman (fixed sight Woodsman).
The real aficionados say the S&W .22 are the most accurate revolvers while the Colt OMM .38 will out-shoot the K-38 (hard for me to believe?). The Colts are fine revolvers, but lack some of the Smith charisma, IMO.
In my decidedly biased opinion, the late 40-50's S&W .22 K-Frame is the revolver to strive for if simple shooting pleasure is your desire (6" Masterpiece M-17 or 4" Combat Masterpiece M-18). The 22/32 and Outdoorsman's sights, balance and grips aren't quite as user friendly and while I love the Kit Gun, its rather small and easy to carry but difficult to control.
That said, I'm looking for an earlier Kit Gun and a M-35 (6" Barreled Kit Gun J- Frame) Here are a few pix.
1970's K-22, M-17-3 with Herrett thumbrest grips.


1936 Outdoorsman with Fitz thumbrest grips.


1970's Kit Gun with Herrett grips.


Cut-down (3 1/2") 22/32 with custom grips.


10" 3rd Model Single shot


And maybe my fav shooter, at least until the 6" gets here, 1950's 4" .22 Combat Masterpiece (Pre-Model 18) with El Paso holster & Tyler grip adapter


They are ALL great!

I own one .22 revolver, this one.

Steve, If you have a S&W 19-3 4" blue for sale let me know.

At one time I had a set of three K's a K-22, K-32 and K-38.

One day my friend and I were comparing our K-32’s both had about 98% finish and we noticed that they were consecutive numbered.
I bought mine used in Alaska, he bought his new in North Dakota.

At the time we decided that the guns were worth $200 each and thought they should be together, we flipped a coin and I lost. Please don’t tell me what a K-32 is selling for these days ‘-).

Michael,
I was lucky enough to once win a flip like that when I found the case for a one of a kind Webley that a friend owned. Yes, we are still friends.

I bought a used Colt OMM .22lr not long time ago and it's one of my favourite shooters.
With kind regards,
Jani

Thanks for all the encouragement gentlemen. There's room enough in the safe for more than one, right now I think I am concentrating on finding an OMM and a 1946-1957 K-22. These both seem to run in the $500-1000 depending on condition, seem fair?

I had some confusion about how the K-22's are marked so I called S&W today and was told they only had a K and a serial number until 1957 and then they have a 17-X on the frame. Sound correct?

Steve, I saw your 17-3, but would like something a bit older. Would love to find a K-22 from 1955, the year I came out of the factory!

Will let you know how this shakes out.

Anyone have a good thing to say about the Colt .22 Diamondback?

thanks, Rob

Yes.

I like the fit & finish of the prewar Colts better than the S&Ws but the Colt grip doesn't fit my hand nearly as well as the S&Ws do. IMO the little prewar 'kit gun' that SDH made and showed us is the neatest thing I've seen in a long time, I'm envious!
Regards, Joe

For S & W Bekeart models, take a look at the current Amoskeag Auction, Lots 262 and 293. I think they are too light, but interesting! I have serial #2 of this series, with A O Niedner, Malden, Mass barrel.

Rob, JD and everyone else, it appears I misspoke and I apologize. Rob, after reading your last post about when the Mod 17 was stamped on the revolvers I had to go check mine and see what I actually had and if the date of manufacture I was told, 1947, was or was not incorrect. My revolver is not stamped Mod. 17, just a K 71XX on the barrel beneath the extractor rod and a KO 278XX on the frame behind the crane. As the numbers aren't matching does that mean this revolver has possibly been rebarrelled? I'm not at all familiar with S & W's numbering.

Vic

Vic

Michael, Terry,
The S&W fanatics think any inscription not done at the factory and documented in the "letter" greatly diminishes the value of the revolver! I'm sure you fellows feel quite differently!
A K-32 wouldn't mean anything to me except trading stock, Very Good Trading Stock!
Thanks JD, it shoots good too!
At one time the Colts were of great interest to me, but... I've only a few left and have found myself selling to acquire Smiths. Either in .22 could be greatly entertaining.
New Service .45 Colt and S&W 2cd .44HE


I anyone really interested in S&W the Standard Catalog of S&W is a complicated, but VERY informative book, necessary even! I bought the OP Neal and Jinks S&W book for $325 about 20+ years ago (K-32 price), but use the SCSW now.
Vic, serial numbers on early guns are on the butt, bottom of barrel, ejector star, under rear sight, back of cylinder under star... inside crane has assembly numbers, later put model number there M-17-3, etc.
Your correct on #71xx being 1947 (about) only a letter confirms.

If you like longer barrels, I think the S&W would be easier to find. I have 17's in various configurations, including one with 8" barrel (as I recall). Very nice piece.

Not exactly what you asked about, but my favorite .22 is a Ruger Super Single Six. Too new for you, but a nice shooter.

Terry mentioned the H&R Ultra Sportsman. I have had a Model 777 for many years. This is an extraordinary revolver, single short action, and short cylinder the length of a .22LR cartridge. The bullet does not have to jump the length of a .38 Special to get into the barrel, as on a K22. Not many were made. I also have a K22 that I bought used around 1950, do not know exactly which model, but I used to shoot in the mid 90s timed and rapid double action on the old National Capital indoor range in DC. Remarkably smooth trigger. I am also fond of a Walther PPK with dural frame although of course I cannot hit nearly as well with it as with the revolvers.

Yeah, I wish I had a pair of them. One in .22 LR and one in .22 Mag.

Vic, when I spoke with S&W today they told me that from 1944-1956 K-22's had the serial number block K-101 through K-288988.

That's roughly about 290,000 guns in 14 years, a little over 20,000/year if production was at all consistent. Your gun, is an early one in that block with either number. Give them a call, they were very helpful, perhaps they can narrow it down for you.

I've owned at least one of all the revolvers you mentioned except the Colt OMT. Of them all, my favorite was the Model 35 "Kit Target." But they weren't popular and are hard to find at any reasonable price, especially in the "less-than-pristine and better-than-crappy" condition that most of us want for a nice shooter.

Practically speaking, I'd look for a K-22 or "pre-Model 17". They have a good balance of portability and shootability and can still be found at less than astronomical prices, unlike anything that has a pony on it. If you use it for extended range sessions, bring along a worn-out toothbrush to brush unburned powder grains out from under the extractor star every few loads, or you will have the cylinder bind shut. I've had many S&W .22s and .22WRMs and almost all of them had this issue; they are made to TIGHT tolerances.

Actually ANY of the guns you mention, in good shape and at a decent price, will serve you well. Fortunately DA revolvers are not very fashionable in NYS and still can be found at reasonable prices with a little searching. The further you get from the Big Apple, the better the prices, in my experience.

Congrats on wending your way thru NYS gun permit hell! I got mine six months after residence in NYS, but had a hell of a time; didn't know anyone to give me a reference. Finally found a co-worker at the college (in Rensselaer County if you're not from east of the Hudson and west of Vermont, you're nobody) who was also a gun nut and known to the fuzz. Locals didn't like the fact that all my bona fides were from Idaho, but I persisted and got the permit. Once you get it, many possibilities open up.

Thanks Mike, I'm actually in Westchester (east of the Hudson but south of VT!) and the permit process here is more involved than the one for NYS. Took a long time to get the necessary documentation together and then when I first submitted the application one of my references had used the wrong color ink so that was a 5 week delay. But in the end it went pretty smoothly.

The two closest ranges to me are in CT so I'm in the process of applying for a CT permit. Also there seem to be many more retail outlets for the type of gun I'm looking for in CT and a CT permit will allow me to purchase there without the problems of transfers.

Gadzooks, so they ADD complications by COUNTY now? Thought that was just The Apple! "Local control" is great in principal, but not always in practice....

Yeah, I agree about the retailers in CT; lotsa slightly worn Colts and Smiths there. If you are ever in the Albany area, there were (3 years ago when I left) a number of good sources for used handguns. Another that I especially liked was Beecroft's Shooter's Supplies up in Schachticoke. That's a far piece from Westchester, but might be worth a call. They don't do internet business (or didn't) but may have a website. Dave Beecroft is a good guy to deal with.

One thing I disliked about NYS was the autonomy of county cops in enforcing the gun laws; seemed like every county mounty had his/her own interpretation of what was legal where. One guy would tell you it was legal to hunt deer with a legal caliber handgun in a "shotgun only area", but right across the county line (where in the hell is THAT when you're in the woods????) it magically wasn't. Not much use citing the printed statutes when they're busy impounding your guns and talking about violations that threaten your permit! Made me hinky, although I never had a real problem I couldn't blarney my way out of.....and California is AT LEAST as nutso!

based on personal experience i would stay away from webley & scott and harrison and richardson. i don't mid six shot capacity so my top choices would be s&w 650 or 651 stainless with extra .22lr cylinder. i would stay away from old collectible stuff as it's more expensive to buy and more difficult to fix if something breaks down.

Sometimes I forget what the rest of the world has to go through just to own a handgun.

Here in Alaska you can carry open or concealed without any type of permit. When you buy one it's just a 4473 and you don't need anyone's permission to own a handgun.

In MS it's 'no permit needed' to purchase or keep in one's car; the main complaint I hear about the CCW process here is the fact that they only take apps on Wednesdays...

BTW MS is THE ONLY place in the ENTIRE WORLD where the inhabitants, although unfortunate enough to have a 'school shooter', also were fortunate enough to have an armed schoolteacher who rushed out and stuck a loaded 45 in the perp's face and captured him before he could kill anyone else.
Regards, Joe

Speaking of consecutive serial numbers, how about a pair of Colt OMM numbered like that? One in .22 the other a .38 Spl. Unfortunately they, along with a pre-War Colt OP, mint in the box, went into the kitty a few years ago when I was putting together a down payment on a house. The OMM .22 was beyond a doubt the most accurate .22 revolver I ever fired. As a friend said to me "It shoots like a young rifle!"

colt made some nice guns. i own stainless/alloy series 90 9x19 dao compact pistol. it has no manual safety and clip holds 6 cartridges. i would say it's the best pistol colt has ever made.

Don't think that qualifies as a .22 LR revolver.

Gary D. I feels yo pain--been there, done that. Too many recessions; too many moves; too few nice guns....

Are you sure? I used to buy Federal "Champion" fmj brass cased 9mm ammo at Walmart for $9.87 per 50 pack. Not a lot more money then .22lr and lot more bang.

THIS JUST IN...
K-22, ca. 1948 -- K-38, ca. 1954..--..

Very nice.

I see a lot of mention in ads and posts about cylinder "drag marks", that line that's scratched in the bluing. Guns with them bring less money than clean guns.

I see different reasons given for them from dirt in the frame/cylinder area to spinning cylinders when the gun is not at full cock. Big deal other than cosmetics?

All S&W's have a cylinder line, some more, some less. More from closing the cylinder than shooting. When tuning, I stone the leading edge of the locking bolt so it doesn't get any worse. Not a big deal.
My .22 Combat Masterpiece on page 1 is worse, it more beat-up but shoot fine.
About 10% of condition adds about 25% in price, but all the 50's vintage K-22 are currently very desirable leading many greedy dealers to gouge! or at least try to if the buyers support it...
A guy named Bain at gunsinternational.com has some very clean ones. I've never dealt with him? http://www.gunsinternational.com/adv_search_results.cfm
BTW, I've lost count of the .22's -- ??!!?? but I don't do multiples of the same model like some guys do.
Good Luck Rob!

earlier today i looked at 5 screw k38 with partridge sight on 6" barrel. it is in top shape (ie no visible wear). for $550 it's a lot of gun for the money.

One reason quality 1950s DA revolvers of all calibers are in high demand is that CA state law allows the "import" of C&R qualified handguns from out of state, so any that are 1959 are deemed "safe" by our "Department of Justice." 1960 and later guns (even if otherwise identical) are "unsafe". Makes sense, no? In "1984", anyway....

I have a C&R myself so I have figured out that any pre model K-22 is over 50 years old and eligible. Around here it costs $50-75 to have a handgun transferred through an FFL. That's money I would rather out into the gun than the transfer.

Problem is I have run into several sellers on GB that don't care if it's C&R eligible, they have told me straight out they are scared to send a handgun to a C&R and won't do it, even if it means they take less money for the gun (less bidders, lower price).

"My FFL will not ship to a C&R holder. That's his policy and he's my shipping Agent."

"In 35 years, we have dealt enough with BATF that we just don't risk our license on technicalities. Field agents just don't like to be told or proven wrong. And those are the people we have to deal with and inspect our books."

A few others basically saying the same thing....

Steve, maybe two years ago I bought a G&H Savage 99 from Bain, drove down to a VA show to see it. Nice condition, high but fair price. Would cheerfully deal with him again.

Good to hear, Mark.
I had heard similarly from others.
He has very high condition revolvers and other firearms including many early Am. custom bolt rifles.

I've dealt with Roger Bain on several guns and I think very highly of him. He's very honest, and though he usually is priced a bit higher, you could buy from him even without seeing photos and be confident of what you'll receive. I'd definitely recommend him to anyone.

one came into local shop yesterday and does not have price tag on it yet. what is reasonable price for 4 screw model 17 22lr in 95% condition?

I paid about $325 for one a year ago in similar condition, although mine had no papers and an aftermarket set of grips with a thumb rest.

Already has a buyer but thanks for the lead.

Anybody else see this one?

1955 K-22

Rem-40x,
Are you using the thumbrest grips!
I'm always looking for target grips for S&W!

Rob, quite a discussion of that one on S&Wforum...
The one Michael pointed to was a good buy for someone!

Does anyone here know if any other S&W cylinders can be used on a .22-32 Hand Ejector model? I have not been able to find a replacement for one I bought several years ago. It is in pretty nice condition except for the cylinder which is very heavily pitted on the outside. I have a cylinder in .32 cal. that I bought thinking I might sleeve the chambers to .22, but the .32 cylinder is a tad shorter than the .22.

Well I took the plunge, a 1957, looks like very good condition.

It comes with a set of target grips, Steve do your recognize the style of grip?

Steven:

I am indeed using the grips. Several times a month, in fact, as it's one of the two handguns I shoot most often at our local Monday evening bullseye shoots. They really do work very well for their intended purpose.

Rem

Rob, Can't see enough to say?? but would like to..

Rem,Thanks, how 'bout show & tell on the grips?

Thanks Steven, will get better pics when it gets here.

Nice lookin' revolver, is it a 4-screw?

Yes, a 4 screw from 1957. I won't get it for several weeks, I'll ask about the grips then and get some photos.