doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com What guns are really selling now?

What guns are really selling now? I have had several guns on various sites for sale and gotten few bites. I have priced them very fairly and still no takers. Is the economy really that bad that very few guns are being sold? I see guns on sites that have been there for way over a year.

Mike, by the looks of it at the public shooting range paint all your guns black and call them the newest in assault rifles.

vintage s&w, colt revolvers,......military issue 1911 pistols.

Nice guns with the big names and lots of good, original condition seem to be moving OK.

Check out these lots from Bonham's March sale:

http://www.bonhams.com/cgi-bin/public.sh...SaleSectionNo=1

http://www.bonhams.com/cgi-bin/public.sh...SaleSectionNo=1

http://www.bonhams.com/cgi-bin/public.sh...SaleSectionNo=1

Those are solid prices for those guns. More than I expected to see.

I'm checking on last week's sale. I post what I find to my blog.

OWD

i think the guns of quality still sell as before this depression maybe not as many takers due to unemployment etc. we also bought some guns even if they were not our cup of tea because they were a good buy. take a look at gun broker and look at the large number for sale and the inflated prices that are asked. even just plain junk unsafe guns have telephone numbers for prices. good reasonably priced guns will always sell even if you dont need it junk will always be left behind and turn up on places like gun brokers waiting for the unweary and give the impression that the market for all guns is in decline. imop

In the last 2 years I have sold a few shotguns on Gunbroker and I can tell you that market is weak... definitely a buyers market. Here are some of the shotguns I sold. You decide on whether the prices are high or low or normal.

Beretta 687 Silver Pigeon II Sporting w/ 30" bbls___ $1800


AYA #2 Sidelock-Ejector 12ga___ $2500


AYA #56 Sidelock Ejector 20ga___ $3250


Beretta Orvis Uplander 20ga___ $1800


AA Sarriugarte Derby SLE 20ga.- $1850


Beretta 686 Onyx 28ga.___ $1250


Bernardelli Hammer Gun 20ga___ $1300


Grulla/UA Boxlock-Ejector 20ga.___ $1400


Another AYA #2 Sidelock 12ga___ $2400


Laurona 502 Feather Sidelock-Ejector 12ga.___ $1300



Adam

From what I've seen good condition classic guns with lots of case and decent wood still bring good prices. I look at Foxes a lot because I like them. Bottom line however is that most of what is listed on Gunbroker or other sites is overprices and have been there forever. Lots of $500 guns are being priced at $800. $1,000 dollar guns are being priced at $1,500 (or more). Good guns still bring good prices.

Also, and I've said this before. No one wanted to look at Reserve priced items. Sellers need to understand they don't work. What I think happens most of the time is sellers put it out there at a high price and then wait for someone to contact them after the auction closes and negotiate a lesser price and sell it away from GB at a cheaper rate. Just the way the game is played. The smarter thing IMO is know what the market should be, start the bidding at 1 cent and let it ride. That's what an auction is supposed to be. I think for the most part some dealers have paid too much for guns and don't want to ever sell at a loss. Anyway, just one person's opinion whose wrong 50% of the time.

The part of the market that is soft in my experiance is the entry level stuff. The $500 to $1000 12ga boxlock extractor guns. Typicaly a guys 1st double. These are the cusomers that are hanging on to there money even if they have been unaffected by the economy. The customers that have been into double guns for years tend to be older and less affected by the down turn they know what they want and they are still buying.

Not a scientific survey just my experiance.

adam: the quality of your guns and pricing will always have a strong following. you are obviosly a knowlageable dealer. there is just to many antique and junk dealers flooding the market with trash at unrealistic prices. no offence intended to any honest and ethical gun enthusiast whether a private collector or dealer. best regards

Adam, I would say your prices are low compared to what I have seen a lot of your guns selling for. Now I do not know the specifics on each gun but the AYA 20 gauge #56 seemed real low.
I have listed a CSMC Fox CE Grdae a HJ Hussey a Stephen Grant and a Garbi on Gunbroker and gotten few intrest.

Just an opinion ,but since the market has slowed down quite a bit ,I believe what is happening to the Gun Broker market is ,sellers keep lowering prices because of lack of sales and buyers figure ,Hey might as well wait a few more weeks and the price will come down a little more ,and if the gun sells ,in this economy ,Oh well there will be another ! A year ago ,if you had your eye on a nice gun ,you had better bid ,or someone else would scarf it up ,especially the " Buy Now " guns ! With that said ,it really is a buyers market ,and I think a lot of the sellers on GB ,just can't afford to start their auctions at zero and hope for the best ,I believe they are just in them too deep ,I don't think most of the country ever believed things would get this bad for the economy this Quickly ! OOhay

Guns now selling are the ones which the seller has been willing to negotiate with the buyer. Personally I think, like everything else, there was a "bubble" in which prices rose to unsustainable levels. Now we're seeing equalibrium being reestablished in the market. Your 401Ks have taken a whack, why not your gun collection too?

My favorite seller on a gun auction site presently has 49 items for sale, all 49 have bids because he starts at a penny, all 49 will sell because they have no reserve, there is a total of 1175 bids, nearly all of the items are legitimate guns, but even his junk sells for a reasonable price because everyone knows that the next bid will buy the gun, not result in a "Reserve Not Met" message. No, I won't share the name of this seller, because I have bought guns from him for fair prices and I don't need competition. However, this seller should be a lesson to other sellers. People watch his auctions like hawks because occasionally a real hot gun shows up and sells for a fair price. He never sells guns for unreasonably low prices because so many people watch his auctions. Consequently, all of his guns draw interest and the junk sells for the price it deserves and it is gone in a few days, as he intended.

This seller I described has 100% positive feedback on 6361 transactions, has sold 810 guns on the site just so far this year. Some of his guns sell in the thousands of dollars and he doesn't put a reserve on any of them. You think he's not a happy guy? The rest of these crooks are not gun dealers, they are just plain lazy, putting their guns on "relist" for years at a time when they could sell them next week if they ran an honest ad.

I couldn't agree with eightbore's sentiments more. If you can find a seller as he describes it might be worthwhile otherwise gun auctions are for the most part a waste of time And this comes from 40+ years being involved on the inside and outside of auctions. Barrett Jackson finally got tired of the game playing a few years ago and went entirely to "no reserve" car auctions. If you watch the Mecum Auctions which still have reserves you'll see some of the game playing I'm referring to. Between reserves and unrealistically high fees auctions,for the most part, are IMO something to avoid right now. Are there bargians occasionally? Sure. But you're going to spend/waste a lot of time finding them. Anyway JMO.
Jim

i think the first thing gun broker and the like can do to remedy the game playing is to eleminate this crap of reserve not met either buy it now or no reserve period. either ---- or get off the pot. jmoa [regards]

The local CABELA'S has had the same eight used imported SxS's for sale for the past 12+ months. Apparently I'm not the only one that thinks they are somewhat over-priced.

With the recession, we are in somewhat of a "buyer's market" and over-priced guns don't sell very quickly.

In the past two months I've sold two handguns and two shotguns on gunbroker. None brought "top dollar" but I was satisfied.

gold40

I just looked at GB at Fox Sterlingworths. 59 are on the board currently. Of those 59 only 3 have bids. Those three that have bids have reserves and none of those reserves have been met. In addition, there are zero Sterlingworth auctions that have started at 1 cent with no reserve.

Also of those 59 I'd say 55 are repeat offenders and have been there before (many times). Interesting, the only one that has a buy it now option, provides no pictures and its a brand new seller with no feedback and the gun has pitting. Anyway, for what its worth. PS. If any of these guns move I'd be very surprised.

My guns usually sell fairly quickly. I can't recall having to list a gun more than twice... usually its gone the first time. When I see guns that have been re-listed for over a year, I don't even pay them any attention. Generally the seller is wanting too much and isn't willing to come down so I don't care to try to make a deal... unless its a really special gun. I too hate reserves. I think they scare people. I have always listed the gun for whatever price I wanted with no reserve and it usually works out okay. I may try a penny auction one day. I like them as a buyer... not so much as a seller.

Palunc, as for the AYA #56, it sold for a good price but it also had the most undesirable configuration possible... but it was a 20ga. It had a single trigger, vent rib, semi-beavertail forend, pistol grip, etc. Had it a more traditional set up, I would have kept it. The quality of the finish work was very high with very nice rose & scroll engraving, checkering, drop points, wood, etc (same level of finish as the AYA #1) A dealer would have probably tried to get $5000-$6000 for it. Had it a more tradtional configuration, a dealer would probably try for $8000 or more.

I would prefer always to list guns with no reserve, but in my experience there is a dynamic in auctions that have a low starting point but with a reserve. I have listed guns with no reserve at my selling price with no bids. I then listed the same guns with the same description and the same reserve but starting at a penny. Many times the gun that didn't get a bid starting at the reserve will get bids that ultimately meet the same reserve and the guns sells for the reserve price or more. I've seen it many times and it isn't a fluke. If I knew for sure what made people buy, I'd be very, very rich. But this dynamic does work with gun sales.

This guy may not have any doubles but he knows how to run an auction. I wish a few over at GB would take notice.


http://www.auctionarms.com/search/auctio...p;af=0&ag=8

I usually keep an eye on his auctions. He had a nice Bernardelli Italia hammer gun with 30" barrles and I foolishly let it go.
Sometimes, part of getting a good price on auction is getting people get into a bidding frenzy. And penny auctions will usually do it... but not always. I have seen penny auction bring very high prices but I have also seen them bring incredibly low prices... just depends on the gun and how many people want it.

The AA Derby I sold for $1850 had something like that happen. I listed the gun for $1250 originally. It was listed for week and generated a good bit of interest but it went unsold. I then relisted it for $1100 and I got bids immediately... then I got some more and then some more again. And it ended up selling for $1850. The first time it was listed, a lot people were watching it but nobody acted. When it relisted and got a bid, buyers started bidding because they didn't want to lose it and they got into a bidding war. I've done it myself and, a time or two, I paid too much for the gun because it... but hey, its only money. We can always earn more of it!

Adam

I too have watched this guy at times and I agree he certainly knows how to run an auction. But just as important is the quality of the firearms he offers for sale. How he continues to regularly get merchandise of this quality would be interesting to learn. Anyone know who "Jack The Dog" really is?
Jim

I don't care who he is. Michael has outed "my seller" who I mentioned in an earlier post. He never has a reserve, he starts his bidding at a penny, and never sells a gun at less than it is really worth. He has sold over 800 guns this year, mixes in interesting guns with not so interesting, but because of his sale tactics, thousands of buyers look at his stuff. Consequently, he never sells anything for less than it is worth. Thanks, Michael.

I'm skeptical that Mr. Dog is really selling every one of those guns. Maybe he is, maybe he ain't.

There's a seller on Ebay of machine tools - Reliable in LA, who has similarly astounding auction results. Even when guys who know machine tools are amazed at the high dollars he gets for crap.

In fact, he's attracted enough attention that people have gone out of their way to analyze several of his auctions - and proven beyond any doubt he is shill bidding his own stuff. Often, he sells items to himself, it would seem. People have complained to Ebay with solid proof but of course Ebay is not about to pursue action against a top seller.

I know I'm a lot older than most of you guys but I'll tell you something you learn in life....if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.

is 97-98% 1964 browining 'safari grade' heavy barrel .300H&H with Browning 2-7x scope desirable?

Hey Adam, I'll just send you my guns to sell.
Mike

I can understand the skepticism about a successful seller, but having thousands of people scanning your merchandise goes a long way to getting a low end fair price for everything. With tens of thousands of items listed on gun sites, the guy whose merchandise is looked at on a regular basis will be the one to get the worm.

I had the following explained to me many years ago. In all fairness in comparing this seller with most other dealers seen on Auction Arms or Gunbroker, this particular seller is mostly a consignment dealer where he makes 15% (which he told me a couple years ago) on every gun sold. He did not have to purchase the vast majority of the guns he sells. Previous owners send the guns to him to sell. Whether he sells a gun for $100 or $10,000 he makes 15%. Most other dealers have to buy the guns that they are selling and then list them for resale in hopes of making a profit. Many times these dealers sell at a loss when they purchase a "hard sell". That makes a big difference in listing a gun starting at a $.01
True, the mentioned seller has built a reputation over many years and does an excellent job of presenting other people's guns for sale. By not having to search for guns like other dealers hoping to find guns that will sell at profit, he can concentrate his efforts in good photos and accurate descriptions. If every seller on Gunbroker switched to consignment only, they would go out of business in short notice. To further explain, if a seller on Gunbroker "buys" a gun at $1000, starts it at a penny and sells for $900 and he loses $100, that hurts. If the seller mentioned above sells the same gun for $900 he makes $135. Not paying for something to sell is usually a "win win" situation.

Uh------! I would think, yes!

Model2128gauge, what's your point? The guy sells all guns he advertises, first time out, for reasonable prices. I don't care how he gets them, I just know that if I bid on them, I have a chance to buy them. With the gunbroker idiots, I have no chance.

Lately I have been watching Gunrunner, http://www.gunrunnerauctions.com/index.cfm
They have no reserves and seem to sell a lot of guns at fair prices.
Bought a beautiful Remington 31-TC last week, at a local pawn shop. Brought it home and my wife didn't want it, so I guess I'll have to keep it, myself.

BTW, this has been a very interesting thread, to me. I hope the shotstring crap is almost over.

Very well put, I've been outbid more times than not and nothing I have an interest in ever shows back up.

One of the big problems IMO with online auctions like GunBroker is there are no fees if you do not sell your gun, no incentive for the seller to do anything. I think some guns have been on there for years.

Quote:
"One of the big problems IMO with online auctions like GunBroker is there are no fees if you do not sell your gun, no incentive for the seller to do anything. I think some guns have been on there for years."

Michael:
I've pointed this out before but since some missed it I'll do so again. There's a seller on Gunbroker named "Sly. He has had the same mediocure and overpriced doubles listed there for years. I'm certain he's just one of many. This is why I rarely even look at and have almost never bought anything double related there.
BTW Michael I just noticed you have FOUR stars! With over 4000 posts; You must be the "Dudley Do Right" of Double guns!
Jim

Winchester Model 12 and Model 1897 factory riot guns do well.

Original trench guns do better:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=179885822

Gunrunner, Jackthedog, and number of other sellers are there to sell every gun in the auction. This is a vastly different approaach then many sellers(?) who really use the auctions as not much more than a medium to advertise. It is true that these sellers are usually working with consignment inventory but they also, to a limited degree, buy. I've followed these sites for a number of years, have been second best bidder a number of times and have been successful occaisonally. GR and JTD give adequate descriptions and if you speak to them on the phone will knowledgeably answer questions. They also ship quickly and do an excellent job of packing. This leads to a loyal buyer base and is why they are successful.

It is also why there offerings bring reasonable to very good prices. I'm sure many on this board are knowledgable buyers and as such can be a little jaded. That is to say, the only deals have to be good deals. GR just ran the estate of a guy whose interest was shotguns. It was a perfect example of how there guns perform. Almost everything was a good deal and almost nothing was a great deal. Well, there were a couple that I wish I'd stayed on.

Your last paragraph is a bit hard to follow, but the truth is that, if you have enough of an audience, no one gets screwed and all guns are sold. What could be better? As soon as you inject a limited audience, a reserve, or a higher than reasonable starting bid, people get screwed and not all the guns get sold.

it appears to me the vast majority of guns on gun broker dont sell i would guess in the high 90% range. the knowledgable collector is no dummy. when you see hundreds of marteny henrys 577 etc 4 sale at ridiculas prices and no takers you would think the scalpers would get the message and there is an over abundance of them out there. [scalpers] jmoa

Eightbore,

Sorry if my thoughts were not presented clearly. The use of "jaded" was not in a negative sense but rather to reflect the level of caution that somebody, who has spent years educating himself, develops. I suspect that many here try to do a little better than a good buy. That allows one to dispose of a gun that does not fit their needs without having to find a retail buyer. If you can make a few bucks, it helps underwrite this horrible addiction.

I agree with your last statement with the exception of "people get screwed." If an item is misrepresented a buyer can "get screwed." If the item is fairly represented and the buyer pays too much, a relative term, than the buyer screws himself. Something we all have done!

I too have gotten about fed up with wasting my time scrolling through the same crap with outlandish reserve prices. I wonder if you could get ejected from these sites if you clicked on "Ask seller a question" in these auctions, and asked things like, "Dear Sir, I noticed that the reserve price on this gun is far above it's current market value... did you perhaps allow a hydrocephalic monkey to set the reserve?"

This would be lots of fun, especially on AuctionArms, where your questions are posted to the auction.

QTRHRS, which items in the GR auction do you wish you had bid higher? By the way, the guns on GR that sell for a low price are those the owner should be happy to see "gone".

Could be true, BUT if an item sells no matter who buys it, the seller pays the auction fee. If the guy is buying or shill buying he could run up some serious fees pretty quick. Ebay likes high volume cuz they get a piece of every sale. I would suppose that gunbroker does too - only a fool auction site would not.

Dr.WtS

IMO: The biggest problems with gunbroker are as follows:

*No re-listing fees which leads to endless listings of the same crap ala Sly.
*Reserve auctions and high starting prices**. Eliminate them and you've eliminated one of the most seriously abused areas.

As I stated earlier unless I'm looking for something specific anymore which is rare I avoid gunbroker since I believe it's a waste of time.
I will check out the gunrunner auction site as suggested and see how the run things.
**When I have sold items in the past I've started my auctions at 99 cents.
Gun auctions to me are a lot like Texas Holdem. If you not a big enough boy to play with the others stay the hell out of the game.
Jim

I'd say 75% of the time when I ask a question on GB on these "Reserve" Auctions, I get zero reply. And I mean simple questions, like what are the chokes???

Same here. Especially surprising when the seller seems to be a legitimate dealer rather than a hobbyist.

Setting a hidden reserve sets in motion a "reverse auction" at a glacial pace as week after week and reposting after reposting prospective buyers patiently hunt for reduced but still hidden reserves. The same can be done to a local consignment gun by the simple act of walking away and coming back later to check the tag. I see nothing wrong with a high starting bid as candor concerning one's ridiculous expectations causes no one additional effort above and beyond looking at the ad and a scoffing ejaculation. The problem with penny starts is Christmas week and SuperBowl Sunday. Despite the presupposed mass audience, you might just get your one cent in a thin auction crowd. Won't catch me bragging on Texas Holdem as an eleemosynary activity!

jack

That can happen. I just listed a used Benelli Camo buttstock for a SBE starting at 5 cents two weeks ago. Figured it would sell for at least 75 bucks (price a new one). It sold for the 5 cents. That wasn't a gun of course, but bottom line is it take 2 at least to bid something up when auctions start at 1 cent. PS. I don't think that would happen with any Parker, Fox, Ithaca, etc. Parts fall into a totally different category for sure.

On GunBroker, the 'auto-bid' feature pegs your initial bid, if high enough, at the reserve price. I usually bid what I'd like to buy it for and if it fails to satisfy the reserve, I walk away and let someone else find the reserve...Geo

The one penny bids are for sellers that have found their audience. Jack the Dog and gunrunner have found their audience by fair dealing and will not be victimized by a one cent sale.

That can happen. I just listed a used Benelli Camo buttstock for a SBE starting at 5 cents two weeks ago. Figured it would sell for at least 75 bucks (price a new one). It sold for the 5 cents. That wasn't a gun of course, but bottom line is it take 2 at least to bid something up when auctions start at 1 cent. PS. I don't think that would happen with any Parker, Fox, Ithaca, etc. Parts fall into a totally different category for sure.

$.o1 auctions are for sellers who get the guns and gun parts they have listed from consignors and have no cost invested.
When you pay for something, like your SBE stock, a reserve of $75 would have been the way to go. You must remember that anyone really wanting to buy a SBE stock may take weeks to even find your listing, so a reserve keeps it active until enough buyers can locate your item so you can at least get a fair shot of recovering at least a fraction of your cost in the item.
As it is, it could be very likely your SBE stock will show up again for sale by your buyer at starting bid of $75 and that will make you feel a little cheated.

You are indeed correct. However, I had nothing in the stock. It had been setting in a closet for probably 15 years. I mistakenly thought there might be a demand. Guessing there isn't much need for replacement SBE stocks, because they are just about indestructible.

Eightbore,

Well, I'm probably going to embarass myself here if you remember these guns. Even worse would be if you bought one, in which case you proably thought the guy you were bidding against had no idea of the value.

About six months ago, an L.C., 16ga., FWT, late '30s, 28", looked to be about 98%.

Around the same time, maybe the same auction, a Fox, 12ga., same period, same high percentage.

When GR started that shotgun collection a Mod. 21, Trap, very high percentage.

An L.C., 3E, 10ga. in remarkably high condition.

I did win one in the last sale that I'm picking up from my FFL today.

Scott works hard to find quality stuff.

It's a sad story. Did you buy the Parker 8ga.?

I thought the 16 gauge Smith in the recent auction was a wonderful gun. I fell asleep at the wheel and missed it. I don't remember the 3E 10 gauge or I would have been interested. PM me with your email address and tell me what gun you bought and I will reply and tell you which of the guns you mention that I bought. I have missed more than I have bought.

I believe that was a grade 2 LC Smith on that auction. It was very nice for sure. It was the same auction as the 8 gauge Parker and the grade 2 Colt I bought. He often has some very nice guns.

Sweep,

I believe you are right. Congrats on the Colt.

I don't know if you've had any reason to disassemble your Colt as of yet but,IMO; this has to be one of the simplest and best double designs ever. It's a shame that more wern't made and with modern stock dimensions and fluid steel barrels.
Jim

OK, I think I am going to add a comment to my listings on Gunbroker. I am going to say," Make a reasonable offer and we will talk"
How would that be?

.....Regarding marketing styles, one of our own "Clayws", has established a marketing style on GB that is a real eyecatcher. Most of his auctions are for quality arms (mostly vintage sxs,drillings,rifles) and guns you wonder where he got them. Descriptions and details are accurate and HONEST, photos are outstanding, usually outdoors with added elements of dogs,pheasants,sharptails and beautiful Montana scenery. Most all his auctions are .01 cent starts. I get nervous for him as I'd hate to see him take a beating on the sale. Seems to always make it happen. Clay is not a big player with lots of auctions, but I can always spot his auctions as his thumbnails reveal his classic photo style. I've purchased guns from him with never a thought or question to the integrity of his auctions. Last one was a Dixson and Son with Churchill 25" barrel. Paid a fair price and dearly love the gun. Clay is the real deal. All of us could take a few pointers from these successful marketers. I don't know if I have the buckeyes to give it a penny start. Here's one of Clays listings on GB, 182316273. Randy

Randy, you're right about Scott. He's a quality seller. I bought a cape-gun from him a year or so ago in 12ga X .43 Mauser. I couldn't figure out how the heck the set trigger worked and he led me through it without making me feel like an idiot. Great gun...Geo

I don't think most buyers would object to seeing reasonable reserves that would protect a seller from seeing their Purdey go for $.01, but the permanent ad nauseum listing and re-listing of guns at totally unrealistic prices are an annoyance and a waste of our time.

I can only assume they are doing what I call sucker fishing... hoping some uneducated fool with more money than brains will bite. To me, this is about as ethical as offering some widow pennies on the dollar for her deceased husbands' gun collection.

You can't excuse either tactic.

It's even insulting to the a serious buyer...

Quote:
"I don't think most buyers would object to seeing reasonable reserves that would protect a seller from seeing their Purdey go for $.01, but the permanent ad nauseum listing and re-listing of guns at totally unrealistic prices are an annoyance and a waste of our time."

I'd object Keith:
If Barrett Jackson can routinely sell 6 figure cars with No Reserve so can these gun merchants sell with no reserve. I can see Gunbroker imploding in the future. Right now many gun buyers don't even bother looking there. And even the dumbest gun seller will eventually get discusted with "No Sales" and quit listing.
BTW: It's not unusual to see collector cars sell for only a fraction of the cost of the restoration as that is reality today. There's an old adage in the car collecting community to buy a car after it's been restored as it will be much cheaper than doing it yourself.
Jim