doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Original or sleeved

Are the barrels original or sleeved on this Iver Johnson Hercules SxS

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/conten...erarchyId=11657

Looks sleeved to me. Not a particularly good job either.

Sleeved for sure. Redone case colors as well.

Who has an Iver Johnson sleeved?

Practice gun for a new gunsmith?

Wow! I'm impressed. How can you tell it's a resleeve? The muzzle picture is too small for me to see it.

jOe is just quizzing the new guys-he knows damn well what's sleeved and what's not.


Best,
Ted

Bloody great horrible line 3-4 inches down the breech says it all to me..

last time i looked at one of these was about 3 years ago. the gun was 12ga in very good original condition with most of cc left. guy at local gun show wanted $900 and was willing to accept reasonable offer. in todays market price of $1200 for refinished gun amounts to pipe dream not to be realized.

Ted thats not true....I suspected it was.

That's what I was thinking when I first saw it.

Gentlemen:
Finally. Homeless has struck upon the truth. Unknowingly. These guns were cheap guns, built to a price point. Thus, the cheap way to make such a double is to employ the monobloc method of joining barrels to a pre-machined breech section that includes lump, chambers, bites, etc. It's essentially the same process used in sleeving a good gun. The solder you see is a sloppy joint job. The knurled ring around the barrels was supposed to hide this plus a none-to-precise joint. SKB used the same process, and so did a range of others. As someone said, "who sleeves an Iver Johnson?" The answer is nobody.

Best, Kensal

OK, I can see the monobloc joint, and now that I finally found out how to enlarge, can see the sloppy soldering job.

I wonder how much this would cost? Even for a gunsmith who does a less-than-outstanding soldering job, it can't be cheap. And I wonder if someone didn't put more money in this gun than it's worth.

Just an fyi, that is not a monobloc joint. It is a sleeving. A monobloc requires a single piece of metal to be machined and fitted with barrels.

The sleeved Hercules. The seam is too far forward to be a monobloc.


If you look at other pictures of Hercules guns, you will see there is no joint.


A Beretta is a true monobloc. In this photo, you can just barely make out the seam above the hing.




I have no clue why some one would spend all that time and money to redo this gun.

Pete

Thanks. I've got a Winchester 23, which is a monobloc. I can see now how far forward that joint in the picture is.

Monobloc = "one block". Model 21 is a chopper lump if I am not mistaken. I am willing to be corrected or educated if I am mistaken.

Mine is a 23. Wish it were a 21.

Sorry, I misread your post.

Dovetail lump, NOT chopper lump, on a Model 21, by the way. Pete, thanks for posting the correction on monobloc vs sleeved. A true monobloc is stiffer and sturdier than any sleeved gun can be.

Come on, jOe, you thought that was legit? I've heard it all, now. Not surprising to me in the least that the world's "outmost forfeiter" would have it in inventory, either.


Best,
Ted

Truthfully Ted I didn't have a clue if the gun was original or not....only Iver Johgnson I've ever saw was a single shot.

I do think if the mono-block was so great English guns would have been built on it instead of mostly junk Belgium and French guns.

Ted, is a barrel with the tube, the chamber, and the lug in one piece not a chopper lump design if there is a dovetail and a solder joint rather than just a solder joint?

You have to talk to the marketing people about that. Remember, Winchester destroyed a few regular chopper lump guns in the great durability test against the dovetail lump model 21.
I never understood why a square crossbolt wasn't a Greener crossbolt, but, it isn't, according to Zutz.

Best,
Ted

Beretta's are junk? Beretta has been using the monobloc since at least 1920. Probably before that, but I can not verify it. Because the English did not do it does not equate to junk.

Pete

Try to keep in mind that jOe thinks a sleever is the cat's meow...



Best,
Ted

And Teddy is a pump man



Pete the older Beretta SxS's I've saw were not of a very high quality.

HEY! WATCH IT THERE PAL...US PUMP SHOOTERS ARE KINDA SENSITIVE.....

eYe heard that...especially darne moss'nberg pumpers that hang out on Double gun sites

They are tools, jOe...just like you.


Best,
Ted

Perhaps this was a first attempt at the process, and the gunsmith wisely chose to practice on an inexpensive gun.

Hopefully, he got better before moving on to higher quality guns.

I think the monobloc v. chopper lump (and whatever chopper lump is called in an o/u configuration) is a huge BS discussion, since there are any number of excellent gunmakers using monoblocs, including P&V, Perazzi, Beretta, FAMARS, etc.

There you go again Dueling Banjo dude. Thinking with your dipstick again, joby.

I see you and Teddy been drink'n from the same ceramic water hole.