doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion Classic & Custom Single Barreled Sporting Rifles @ doublegunshop.com A winchester action or stock.

I thought I would post a flyer request for some winchester parts. I'm interested in some old take off wood from a Winchester highwall pistol grip stock. In fact, I would be interested in two such stocks possibly.

I'm also interested in a Winchester highwall action also pistol grip, if you have a spare. Might consider a straight grip stock if the rest was right. I could buy a new CSharps highwall action but would like to save some money if possible.

I have a fairly nice flair-side, centerfire, low wall (thick tang) action that I might be willing to use as trade bait but really, I'm just looking for the highwall.

If you happen to have something, please email me at brentd@iastate.edu and let me know you saw this here so I can send Dave his $10 if we do a deal.

Thanks,
Brent
PS. Does anyone have any opinion about the quality of the C.Sharps highwall action?

Just a fairly uneducated opinion, but the you might be saving money by buying the C.Sharps highwall.

Quality appears to be very good, don't know about interchangability with originals, owner has DEFINITELY been publicly proven to be unscrupulous in the past.
Regards, Joe

Don, I suspect you are right about the cost factor and that is an issue here. I know the guy has some peronality issues but a few of his guns have seemed to be excellent quality and his actions are reasonably priced. An original action is going to cost the same or even more.

What I'm looking to do is build a plain jane back up target rifle. So, I'm looking for take-off wood from someone restocking an old original or something like that - and for actions, I am scouting the landscape to see what is available. Right now, the C.Sharps seems to be the solution (though I don't really care for the thick side profile).

Brent

Brent, how much is he getting for an action these days? BTW I have a thickside octagon-top clone (cheap) and a thin-side original (not quite as cheap) as well as some wood, I'll email you with details.

The C.Sharps products have a good rep for quality but the only first-hand reports I've heard have been about the sidehammer Sharps replicas and not the high walls.
Regards, Joe

Joe,
C.Sharps is getting $1200 for one these days. I have a two friends with the 1885s and the rifles shoot very well. So, I guess they are well done.

I'll look for your email. No hurry though, I'm in the shop all day working on some cherry furniture.

Brent

Brent,
You may want to consider this:
1885 Cabelas
I saw it today at their store. Just another idea.

LRF,
That is not the worst idea and I could scoot up there and grab it. But I think I'm going to hold out for a regular highwall.

One thing that I'll be doing for sure is putting on a new Green Mt .45 barrel cut with my own funky reamer. The idea being when one rifle goes down the ammo will still work at least well, if not optimally, in the other.

That ain't a bad looking rifle for the price and I think that might be an MVA Soule on there which is well North of $400.

Brent,
I sent a PM.

Are the green mountains good? I have never used one. Bought quite a few Badgers but I guess they are no more. I shot the badgers on my rifles, 40 and 45 calibers, for BPCR shooting. They were adaquate.

I think that is a Italian copy of a Soule sight.

I would believe the MVA is also a copy! :-)

The king of HiWall actions would be a thickwall blued centerfire solid frame with coil mainspring. If such a prize showed up at a gun show my guess it would be priced at over $1500. On the other hand a thinwall blued .22RF Winder Musket coilspring action can be had for half that. Although musket actions are softer, they IMO will handle any load in any black powder cartridge with absolute security. And though "scarce", they are not rare. It is still possible to buy complete HiWall Muskets for under a thousand bucks in good condition. I would much rather start with such a Winchester action that with any of the clones.

mkb, it is interesting that you think a thick-sided, coil spring is the premier action. I don't see a lot of differences in prices among highwall actions with respect to thick and thin, but the flat spring action seems a little more desirable to most folks I know.

A winder highwall with holes in it is hard to find and also more expensive every day. I can't find Winders for under a grand - though most are complete rifles.

As for Green Mt barrels, Glenn Fewless, who occasionally shows his sunny virtual face around here, convinced me that they are very worthy barrels by thrashing me repeatedly in Creedmoor matches. So, I have used one on my current highwall .45-70 and it is the most accurate barrel I have by a good bit. I have numerous Badgers, a Krieger and a Douglass to compare with.

On that recommendation, buddy bought one as well but when he slugged it, it had numerous tight and loose spots in it. He sent it back for another w/o mounting it, but I don't know its fate.

Brent

Brent, I can't speak to the preferability of flatpring vs. coilspring primer ignition. But HiWalls have a comparatively small barrel shank opening, i.e., .93" vs. the usual 1" or more of bolt actions. The flatspring has a thin web under the barrel shank where there is a hole for the spring to pass through. The coil version is solid. Granted that this was thought up to allow a takedown action, but it is at least a theoretical advantage.

Regarding Green Mt. barrels, I only have experience with a .22RF barrel and I could not be happier.

I have a false-barrel Stevens 44 1/2 of Niedner's but it's chambered for the .22 short. I wanted to have a .22 LR for the same action as they are easily changed.

In the original form, with the earlier softer steel barrels, IMO it was much more than merely a theoretical advantage. With modern high-strength heat-treated barrels OTOH it's probably a somewhat of a moot point. Please see John Buhmiller's attempts to blow up high walls as recounted by him (Buhmiller) in Simmons' Custom Built Rifles. As Arte Johnson used to say, "Veeerrry in-ter-est-ing!"

GM barrels are no better or worse than any other quality barrels, they've set plenty of national records and won plenty of national matches in more than one shooting discipline. They continue to be a good choice, IMO as good as Douglas or Shilen any day. I've been using them for over 10 years with good satisfaction and will continue to use 'em in any appropriate application. I especially like the little breech tulip left on many of their octagon barrel blanks, IMO it really sets off a nice rifle very well.
Regards, Joe

LRF
Of course the MVA is not an original, period sight made by Soule himself. However, the MVA and the Baldwin are the premier current production "Soule type" sights made today. Although the Italian sight may serve your needs, my point was they are not of the same quality or worth the same money as the MVA.

J Scott McCash,
You observed and stated the sight was a copy and I only also commented the MVA was also a copy.
Far be it for me to judge the merits of one vs the other.

GreenMountain barrels...If my memory servers me they started business making low end muzzle loader barrels using 12L14. They were one end and Getz was kind of on the other. I see they are using 4140 and Stainless steel in some of there barrels now.

Brent if you can find out about the fate of your freinds barrel that would be interesting. Do you know if it was cut or buttoned rifling? To me tight and loose spots may indicate improperly heat treated steel being used.

An argument for the coilspring action is that if you are willing to mess up an original you can bore and thread the front face for a forearm strut and free float your barrel. I do not know anyone who has ever done it but I have thought about it ... Today it would make more economic sense to use a clone. Another stunt is one that Tom Burgess actually did, he bored out and rethreaded a frame so he could make a 7mm Remington Magnum with decent chamberwall thickness. It is generally accepted that the HiWall is the strongest of the classical American SS actions - see Buhmiller's blowup afforts referenced by JDS - and IMO it is also the most versatile.

I do not have the book, did Buhmiller test others?

Interesting thoughts about the relative strengths of flat spring vs. coil spring actions. Never thought of that issue. In any event, any highwall is strong enough for me. I have a hybrid flat/coil spring low wall however. It uses both springs for a faster hammer (short-fall, Ti).

In looking at that Italian highwall, I was pretty sure those were MVA sights because of one feature I thought was unique to MVAs. But now I am certain they are not MVA sights. I'd sell the sights regardless and use my own MVAs anyway.

LRF. I don't know if my buddy's GM barrel was button or cut. It was a standard .45 18-twist barrel however. Just like mine. I hope the one they replaced it with is better. I don't think he has done anything with it yet.

Brent

Brent,
I am not interested in the gun at all and only was showing you the link, however if I wanted the gun for the action I too would try to sell off the parts; sights, stock, and barrel.

I think I will consider the GM barrel for my new project. I think you also replied to my barrel inquiry over on the campfire, thanks for the input and assistance.

(For sights I will make my own as I have for the last 30 years)

GM offers (or rather offered at one time, may still be this way) cut-rifled barrels in 40, 45 and 50 cals while their buttoned barrels are offered in cals up to and including 45 but no 50s. Supposedly all cartridge rifle barrels are now made of 4140 or similar and are heat-treated twice.

GM started out small for muzzleloaders but now is quite large and makes many thousands of barrels per week, in fact I wouldn't be surprised if they're now the biggest in the US.

I'd be amazed if they didn't stand behind their products 100%. In the past I've dealt personally with their head honcho, Rick Sanborn, and found him to be a splendid fellow. I recommend them and their products and I only WISH I had some sort of financial interest in the company!
Regards, Joe