doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com MICHAEL MC INTOSH'S GUNS

Does anyone here know what became or what will become of Mike Mc Intosh's guns? Will they be sent to auction? Inquiring minds want to know.

Best Regards, George

Okay I'll bite. Some of us are pretty sad to have recently lost a good friend. He obviously wasn't a friend of yours. He was a friend of mine and I find you post very offensive.

It never fails to happen when a collector passes...and saying that, those that wait a respectful amount of time before inquiring often find that the guns or whatever are gone.

I think the family probably has other things on their minds at this particular time. I think in the fullness of time that information will be forthcoming. This reminds me of when a Great uncle of mine passed away who had been a coin collector for about 60 years. First thing out of some folks mouths were "When are they going to sell the coins?"

Dear AA: Nothing offensive intended. I can't say that Mike was a friend of mine although I did meet him on one occasion and was very impressed with his knowledge and the mutual interests that we both held. I'm sure that his family is grieving over his loss. He left us too soon to be sure.I don't know in what financial condition his family was left. I do know that too many times when a collector passes the heirs and survivors are talked into disposing of the decedants collection much too cheap. RHD45 nailed it when he said "those that wait a respectful amount of time often find that the guns or whatever are gone". I have firsthand knowledge of two instances of valuable gun collections
being disposed of for a song (and no, I was not the buyer). In any event, when the time is right, some of us might want to own something to remember a prolific, gifted and terrific sporting writer.

Best Regards, George

George, I think a vulture would have more class than you.
Michael is hardly cold and you are looking to make a buck.
If you were a gentleman, which plainly you are not, you would make extremely gentle enquiries of Michael's family after a suitable interval, which has not yet passed.
Mike Bonner

I'll bet someone has already inquired with the family about some of Mr. McIntosh's assets. When my brother-in-law, a large farmer, died my sister had inquiries at the calling hours about renting land.

Right, wrong or otherwise...if you snooze, you loose.

Neither snoozing nor losing nor countless examples of paths beaten to wreath-covered doors is the point.
I would suggest that Mr. McIntosh's friends are likely to be wide in number and experience and that the family will avail themselves of that experience in the form of advice to make the best "deal" for the family when the time is appropriate, concerning guns or any of the belongings that filled his Life.
Prior to the family making any decision, further inquiries will fall just slightly short of ambulance bumpers and good taste.
I further suggest that what is "right" is also clear.

as the buzzards begin to circle...

It ain't like George needs them.

Had the same issue back in 1997 when my dad passed away. He had a fairly good collection of rifles and shotguns that he sold with the exception of a Model 94 and a Model 1906 that had been re-barreled and re-stocked to look like a Model 62. He left those to me, which I donated to the NRA Museum. He had a Colt Single Action in .45 Long Colt, he bought from Hudson's Sporting Goods back in the late 30s. It was a 4 3/4" barrel model. He didn't mention it in his will and my cousin was the executor of the estate. When his relatives and friends heard that she had it, they all decided they should have it. Talk about a lot of raised voices and strong letters. His step brother and step sister, both, had one foot in the grave and they were bound and determined they were going to get their paws on it. My brothers and I were hoping she would donate it to the NRA Museum, but that didn't happen. Events like this always bring out the worst in people.

My parents gave everything away to us children long before they died. They helped us when they thought we may have needed it, not at the times of their deaths when we were comfortably settled. They knew that invariably there is unpleasantness or worse toward the end and almost always in designating possessions. For the time it takes, persons who don't get these matters nailed down before death are bloody fools. It poisons families forever.

I hope to auction my entire collection out of the kitchen door of my house to an enthusiastic crowd gathered between the garden and the house. However, I don't trust an auctioneer to properly describe the guns nor do I trust a caterer to conduct a proper free bar and barbecue. I have to figure out how to do all three jobs while on my last legs. I don't want anything to be left after my death except a few bird guns and a .22.

Sadly, money or possesions brings out the sh-t in peoples' blood.

WOW! Some folks can get their panties all in a wad over a simple question. No, like jOe said, I don't need any more guns. Out of respect for Mike I would like to see his guns go to someone who will cherish them along with his writings. If I was lucky enough to be able to buy one you can be sure that it would not be for sale any more than the English Literature book that I have that was signed by Havilah Babcock.

Best Regards To All.......George

Oh come on George, lets not get on the high horse. You knew the question was "questionable" but asked it anyway so you've got to expect this reaction.

DLH

For those that were offended by George's inquiry... What is the "proper" length of time needed to pass before the "vulture" comments would not be necessary?

I am sure that someone as well versed and knowledgable about double guns as Mr. McIntosh would have a plan in place to properly dispose of his guns upon his untimely death. In other words, I doubt his widow/family would be taken advantage of by some unscrupulous "dealer". He wasn't exactly John Doe that sets up a table loaded with mossberg 500's at the local gunshow. This was a true expert in our field and I doubt that the family would be offended at people who would love to own/cherish a piece of Mr. McIntosh's legacy. Provenance and history add to the value of each gun and most of us here would love to have a shot at owning a piece associated with someone of Mr. McIntosh's stature.

I wasn't offended. Of course, I'm not family, friend or associate - nor can I afford his good stuff anyway.

I'm just guessing that a lot of this reaction is a carry-over from George's initial posts in the For Sale section. Clogging up the whole section with dozens of guns for sale from what appeared to be a dealer did seem to irritate an awful lot of the folks on this BBS.

Inquiring about the disposition of MM's guns seems to be a fair question, although perhaps a bit early. I expect there will be some large auction house advertising the sale of the collection sometime next year.

What did he have that has George so excited? All I ever hear about is the AYA with a million rounds through it and an old Wilkes that he is carrying on the dust cover of the Fox book. If he has anything decent, I expect the Missouri contingent will be first in line.

Oh,I don't know... maybe till the dirt settles or the family arrives at a decision made public.
The "proper" question may be much like...why the need to notch a gun butt?

While I don't one way or another about MM's guns or even if George is an offensive SOB or not, I have to think that MM's relatives will be versed enough in guns that they won't be put out in the Saturday morning garage sale. It would be like suggesting Hugh Hefner's collection of marital aids might be scattered to the wind when he passes.

I do believe that MM's passing was not sudden and not totally unexpected by those who knew him well. I believe he had been in declining health for some time.

I think if this would have happened totally unexpectedly then perhaps there might not be a plan in place.

Accordingly there would seem to have been plenty of time for estate planning and that would no doubt include his firearms.

PS. I have zero doubt there are member's of this forum who know exactly what the disposition of MM's firearms are. Those few that do know are without a doubt sadly shaking their heads and wondering why is this coming up now.

When my best friend died suddenly his widow was being asked at the funeral about his guns by people she did not even know. One of them sent her a large check for his Schoyen 2 barrel Ballard set but she returned it.The one dealer that he knew well,James Goergen, told her to call if she needed any help with the collection and was most respectful and we all very much appreciated Jim's kindness at a very unexpected event.

Really, in the interest of getting the most out of the funeral home expense, they should just line up a guy's guns next to his casket so others can peruse them. As long as this was done after they paid their respects, and not prior, I don't see an issue.

Now, his widow, they should wait until after the funeral before making their play.

Disgraceful

Friends;
In my personal opinion, this entire thread was begun by a tasteless boor, and should have been deleted at the onset. It does no honour to the site. Those who have commented have either revealed their affinity to the originator, or their disgust at his Uriah Heap demeanor.

If even feel dirty after writing this. Pardon me while I de-louse myself.

Sincerely, Kensal

Kensal, you are right on, a tasteless boor indeed, I was quite shocked when I read the first post.
It should have been deleted at the onset as a gross example of horrible bad taste.
Mike

Ohio Sam has it exactly right. Approached about buying a 5 acre hay field at my mother's funeral. Early bird, main chance, turnin a buck, respectfully multi-tasking, etc. A bit unctious maybe but not quite as bad, or uncommon, as Mr. Rise's histrionics would suggest.

jack

Mike's been gone almost a month now.The funeral is over. His family's life is probably returning to something like normal and for those of us here who believe in an afterlife I'll bet Mike is walking the Elyisian field's at this moment with some of his favourite hunting companions, both human and canine,and laughing his head off at the progress of this thread.

BTW this will be my final post on this thread.

Best Regards To All......George

P.S. Why do those of you casting stones hide behind some silly pseudonym? My name is George Lander and I live in Lexington, South Carolina.

I am not weighing in on the big moral issue of the day. Not my ox. But, I would like to know a bit more about Mr. McIntosh's seemingly untimely death. I did not know about it and a simple Google search gives very little detail.

I own several of his books and have followed many of his articles.

I really hate these milestones.

May he rest in peace.

Much ado about nothing...George seems to have asked a question,that I imagine, many were wondering about.....Leave it be..

"Much ado about nothing...George seems to have asked a question,that I imagine, many were wondering about.....Leave it be.."

Exactly. What I'm ashamed of is how a bunch of fully grown men get their panties wadded up over their ideas of what is and isn't proper etiquette. This is a gun forum, not Miss Manners.

I'm here because of the generally good manners. It's a distinguishing mark of the educated unhitched from how many years spent in how many schools.

We should all strive to have good manners. But crying or having a hissy fit when we encounter poor manners doesn't speak well for us, either.

Agreed. An anecdote to describe how I feel about all this:

In another life, listed as missing for a week on assignment and assumed (correctly) probably in a Cuban jail, my best friend called my wife and said, "If King doesn't come back I want his diving gear." It was so patently boorish it was taken for what it was: Don't worry, King will show up, he always does.

What offended some members was a pecuniary interest in MM's guns at this time.

Agreed with these two gentlemen. Let it go, fellers.....I don't think George meant anything harmful with his original question. If there's anyone here who hasn't said something that wasn't exactly tactful let him step up and bash George. Everyone else back off.

Let's talk about double gun stuff, such as: how low will double prices drop before used boxlocks start selling again....or something like that.

Funny thing is, after 4 pages of posts nobody really answered what was posed as a simple question. Even if it were perceived as being asked in poor taste.

I did not know MM. I have a few of his books, that is the extent of my familiarity with him. He seemed like a great guy and had quite a following. Now, did he ever express a desire to gift some of his guns to the NRA or some other museum? Did he have any children/a wife/hunting companion to whom he let his wishes about the particular subject be known? Or, as with way too many gun owners, does no one have a clue?

So lacking any information to the contrary, and assuming he did not pass intestate, everybody is just going to have to wait until his will is probated. If it is silent on the subject, his heirs will get his estate and it is assumed his collection will be part of it. The simple answer to a direct question is that is what is going to happen to his guns.

When I go, my wife already knows which auction house I want to dispose of the bulk of my meager collection. After my sons get the cream of the crop, all my "Freinds" will have a chance to buy what ever they want. I wish them good luck, I hope they do not get outbid. I'll be rooting for them from my treestand in the sky.

Just my $.02

I like this story.Care to elaborate? I will understand if you don't.

I agree.
The only one that I know on here who truly knew him was cross chisels (DT), and when the time is right, I'm sure he might tell of Michael's gun distrubution.



As far as to what George posted in the begining, I do beliee he meant no harm in it, just curious.

Regardless of guns, my thoughts go to his family. I liked his way of writing.

Even in the Missouri Ozarks it is considered crass to bring a U-Haul trailer behind your pickup to the funeral.

JERRY

Some survivors view the accumulation as a detriment and are worried about how to get rid of it and they might appreciate an interested party getting there early with some cash.I've seen it happen.

I decided to stay out of this until the "hissy fit" period was over. Hey King: Just what was that Cuban jail like??
Jim

Yeah King,inquiring,ok nosey, minds want to know.

Not that my friend and distinguished Southern Gentleman George Lander needs defending, but I also met the late Michael McIntosh along with Gene Hill on an Orvis tour back in 1990, if memory serves. At that time, both Gene and Mike were drinking good scotch whisky and smoking Pall Mall's (Gene also a pipe) and both said that we were all mere custodians of the good guns that pass along in the lifetimes of mere mortals.

Mike helped me find and authenticate an HE 12 Fox, a Becker bored 32" 10 lb. cannon that had been "restocked" and he could have asked for a 'finder's fee" but didn't-

Just as with the great split cane rod makers now gone: Jim Payne, Everett Garrison, Paul Young, Gary Howells and others- and with great writers: Gene Hill, Robert Ruark and now Mike- sure there are some vultures waiting to pounce before the dirt has been shoveled onto the grave site- BUT my friend George Lander is NOT in that group- He just asked a logical question- If Michael had "written in a vaccum" so to speak about fine doubles, both side-by and O/U's- but only owned and shot a beat up Model 1897 Winchester, we wouldn't need this Pissing derby about his guns and the possible disposition of same.

The late George Bird Evans, in writing about his wealthy Phila Mainline monied friend Dr. Charles Cadwaller Norris of Fairhill (Bryn Mawr area)- was given through Dr. Norris' kindness one of his two Purdeys- which was treasured for many years, now in other hands I am sure- But GBE also mentioned that Dr. Norris' relatives when seeing the estate sale of his library- "Never realized what ol Uncle Charlie had" they thought of his collection as just "hunting stories" I surmised. GBE also wrote about an eccentric bachelor who stated in his will his house with the contents and the library were to be burned by the fire department as a practice fire- the books to be destroyed rather than have them end up in the hands of profit seeking dealers after his death- extreme example yes- but I understand the point-

I'm wondering how much his wife got for the diving gear.

In the hurry to defend, excuse, ignore or even joke their way along, it seems the point was missed for many.
That being the insensitive nature of the inquiry re the timing. Would have been nice were the question followed with a reasonable...and short, "You're right of course, I'm sorry" rather than an added explanation of "why I really did nothing wrong" attempt at track covering.
And, of course, this is not the only BB in the world and, perhaps, some may well have been fed up by the insensitivity shallowly covered by comments somewhat rampant.
But why on Earth try to understand how others may feel when a friend dies..."I want to have my question answered, Dammit!"
That is the sad world of today.

As I first mentioned, I expect the disposition of any of MM's belongings are in capable hands who will advise and respect the family and friends thru any grief period they find necessary. I understand it is nice to put a limit of a month on grief and then "end it, for Christ's sake" but all mourn differently.
Respect should be geared to those given it rather than defined by those spitting it.

GBE did have his pick of three guns owned by Dr. Norris....He was notified by the family to come to Fairhill and choose. The operative thought being the family made the first move. Had the word been wider back then by the Internet I expect that Fairhill's phone would have been ringing off the hook...for guns or books.
But...GBE would not have been calling, of that I guarantee.
He was a different sort in that regard and of a different time.

And I expect that the Interent would have ensured more such early grabs with "stuff" owned by Gene Hill, Jack O'Conner, Ol' Elmer or a host of shooting folks past on.
The Internet has made the six degrees of seperation idea all too common and many folks use it and other selfish reasons to glean among the lilies.

Hissy fit identifiers and classy wadded pantie comments indicates that many here seek not to consider past their own front bead...that is your right, sad tho it be.
It is also indictitive of more than you realize.

It would be nice if more folks would consider treating their fellow man as well as they treat a fine scattergun....with a soft glove, at times.

While doing a follow-up of my revolution coverage, my boss after too many lunch martinis in Toronto phoned me in Havana and asked if I had made contact with the dissidents. Trouble was, I had made contact under unanticipated circumstances. They had taken me to a roadside for execution because they felt I was providing Castro international publicity. Cooler heads prevailed.

I sluffed off the contact question because I knew my phone was tapped. A government soldier stuck a sub-machine gun in my ear when he pulled me over while I was driving a car a few days later and took me off to a jail for subversives in suburban Havana where prisoners included a couple Americans. The drunk tank at No. 11 in Toronto was worse than my cell.

I was able to be useful because the lengthy disappearance of an US operative had raised serious apprehensions about his fate. I knew the guy---the CIA is always where reporters gather---and I was able to get his message to his employers that he was alive. He was released.

Ramble Past, very well put. Could not agree more!

JC

Quote from King Brown:
"The drunk tank at No. 11 in Toronto was worse than my cell."

You seem to have an unusual in-depth knowledge on jail cells in various locations. How on earth did you find time to write? Are we eventually going to see you on that "Jailed Abroad" TV program?
Jim

Times have changed from when most reporters had bottles in their typewriter wells, employers tolerating as long as they were out of sight, having themselves survived the hard-drinking so much a part of the craft. I quit cold-turkey in 1966.

Seriously, if you were doing your job properly you were going to jail, mostly for political indiscretions: on the wrong side during a labour dispute, in the wrong place during riots, revolts and revolutions, even for talking to the wrong people.

But 50-50 for just raising hell. I remember being in No. 11 with a great reporter, a former hard-rock miner who was shaking the bars and yelling for his lawyer. From the back of the cell came a familiar voice, "I'm here, Norrie."

Liquor was a big part of my education; I'm lucky to have survived it.

WARNING, The previous post is obviously a trick to infect your computer with a VIRUS!

Be careful!!!

Jerry, only a lawyer would do that.

King, booze is something old-time reporters and CIA case officers had in common. Langley would send its burnt-out cases to the Farm as instructors for the new hires . . . where the kids were only too willing to buy drinks for the veterans and listen to war stories.

Larry, what I remember with respect and appreciation is that reporters on the wagon or trying to kick the habit were never inveigled or cajoled to take a drink.

We all knew it was the curse of the craft, an almost obligatory social thing that opened doors while having all sorts of fun.

I don't think reporters and intelligence operatives were predisposed to drink. It became a burden because of waiting for lengthy periods for things to happen.

Regards, King

Mark- what was the idea with Ho-Jo's "junk on the bunk" listing of sports teams- If we reply to that posting, does that spread back a virus to our computer? How so please. I always take his wild and crazy antics with a big dosage of caution-

As for Bro K. Brown- your story about the Cuba adventure recalls my favorite song from the late Warren Zebon-- tag line is: "Send Lawyers, guns and money, the ^%$# has hit the fan"--

Zevon. At least get the man's name right.

His hair was perfect.

Yes, Fox with the Runs, your computer is fried because of the sports post in question. Do not try to use it. I think the virus dies automatically in five months. Then you're good to go.

Runs, if you or someone else has a problem and are using Windows, try doing a System Restore. It takes your computer to an earlier time when it was running fine.

Go into My Computer, Control Panel, opens to Pick a Catagory. Go to Performance and Maintenance. On left side, See Also, go to System Restore, click on it, opens to Restore my Computer to an Earlier Time, go to next, pick an earlier time when your computer was fine, could be a few days or a few months back. You will not loose any new files.

I did it a few years back, when my some type of virus attached some programs to my desktop and I could not remove them.

Francis,

I see that our protector the Mighty Dave has removed that infected post!

In the future never click on any links in any post from who you do not know the poster. If you do a new virus may find a path into your computer.

Mark

Your 2nd para pretty much fits intelligence operatives as well, King. That and the fact that booze always flowed freely at diplomatic receptions. And if you were trying to get friendly with a Russian . . . they're all drunks!

Here is the answer to your question:


"The Michael McIntosh Sporting Estate will be available for viewing on our web site in a few months. We have a lot of Michael's treasures to inventory and catalog, so thank you for your patience. Michael was an avid collector of all the trappings of our sport we so love. Not only will we be auctioning off Michael's collection of fine guns but also his sporting library, and a great library it is, plus his wildlife art collection, both originals and prints, magazines, hunting clothes, gunning equipment and many of his personal treasures, inclusive of his famous smoking pipes. After everything is cataloged, his estate will be available for inspection at FIELDSPORT. "

http://www.fieldsportltd.com/default.php

And now we know!

George

There's only one cure for the virus in the Foxes head....cheap and quick