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Sidelock
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Sidelock
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Please read the posts very carefully. Unfortunatley, most folks are off-base. Make a drawing if it helps. It would be impossible to "normalize" a 9.3 Sauer to 9.3x72R.
Very best,
C.
Last edited by C. Kofoed; 09/06/11 08:44 PM.
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
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I don't know what you infer on close reading but until dimensions point to the rare bird 9.3 Sauer, I have strong reservations as to the possibility, which has a very low probability. I think the red herring to be the "9.3 Sauer" term for now. I shoot several Meffert's with the same issue. It is a base issue and not a case mouth or neck. Many times Teschner-Collath examples have the 9.3X72R d stamp on the extractor. If anyone has ammo that will fit, M4 will be the most likely choice.
Kind Regards,
Raimey rse
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jun 2008
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What I have been trying to get through is the cartridge might be a 9x72R Sauer and NOT a 9.3X72R Sauer
Mike
USAF RET 1971-95
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2004
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Joined: May 2011
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
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A 9.3 case will stick out of a 9x72 chamber about as much as you described. Have you resized to 9x72 to try for a good fit. Frankly, I like the bullet selection in .358 a lot better than the 9.3's anyhow. I am with Mouer on reaming to 9x72 if it is an odd straight walled case that mics out enough metal to get away with it. the 9x72 is fairly low pressure. Be careful. Steve
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
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I'm not sure which 9x72 ya'll refer to but there was a 9x70 which either developed along the same timeline in Germany as the 400/360 Westley Richards, or some other maker, did in England. I assume the 9.3X74R came next followed by the proprietary 9.3X72R S&S sometime in 1906 - 1908. As Kofoed notes the 9.3X72R S&S(Sauer) is not in the lot with all the 9.3X72R variants. If a 9.3X72R variant(D,E,N, etc.) was dropped into a 9.3X72R S&S(Sauer) the rifling would more than likely break the fall of the cartride by catching the taper of the brass. A 9.3X74R(seventy four) will insert and fire in a(some) 9.3X72R S&S(Sauer). If a 9.3X72R will not insert into the chamber, it is not a 9.3X72R S&S(Sauer). I've only seen one and heard rumour of another sporting weapon chambered in 9.3X72R S&S(Sauer). But there could be other pre-1912 rifled tubes out there which are thought to be 9.3X74R(seventy four) that are actually 9.3X72R S&S(Sauer). Below will give a general idea of the shape of the 9.3X72R S&S(Sauer). Advertised as 400/360 Purdey similar but not same as 400/360 Westley Richards 400/360 Westley Richards Kind Regards, Raimey rse
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
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Fear not, I contacted Stars & Strips Custom Ammuniton today regarding the 9.3x72R Sauer whitch they will make for me,(20ea) including shipping and insurance it will cost me about $100.00. I will send my casting that encludes about 1/2 inch of the rifling. This will made sure we are getting the correct cartrige for this old drilling.
The cartrige conversion displayed on page 1 of this post are of the 9.3x72R Sauer and a 9.3x74R, when I studied the drawing with a magnafier, two completly differnt cartriges.
Now I'll have a few to shoot and some to stick in the cartrige trap in the buttstock.
Thanks to everyone for your help.
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jun 2008
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Jerry, SWEET, good choice, please let us know if Stars & Stipes use a .358 bullet or a .366 bullet, Thanks again for a stimulating post Mike
USAF RET 1971-95
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2007
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Hi Jerry, Raimey has called me out! I have about a 1/2 dozen guns in the 9.3x72R chambering & over 500 rnds of ammo & brass and I have a habit of collecting vintage ammo as well as guns, so I went up into the loading room and pulled 4 boxes of factory vintage ammo for measurements, my measurements were just taken with a pair of Brown & Sharp dial calipers so not exact. 1st recomendation is to get a copy of the 3 part article Mike Ford wrote for the GGCA and read it carefully as it is stuffed with lots of info for this fine cartridge. Let me start by saying the same factory cartridges will not fit in all my guns and I always drop each round from the selected box into the chamber of the rifle I am going to use it in so I don't end up with any suprises in the woods.If I were to grab one of my tight chambered early guns I found that the vintage old Norma 10 rnd boxes of 9.3x72R D with the red labels usually seemed to be the most universal in fitting all the guns, so taking these measurements even suprised me a bit. Measurements were, rim dia., then each 1" increment toward the mouth, then case mouth dia., & last bullet dia.
DWM 9.3x72R .483 .425 .403 .382 .380 .363 bullet
RWS 9.3x72R .483 .425 .405 .382 .382 .367 bullet
Gedaco9.3x72R NORM .483 .423 .400 .385 .383 .365 bullet
Norma 9.3x72R D .480 .427 .405 .385 .382 .365 bullet
DWM Handload .483 .425 .403 .383 .384 .364 bullet
I geuss the biggest lesson learned in this little exercise is that just a couple of thousands of an inch dia. in a long slow tapering case such as this makes a big difference in fitting the chamber and that ammo specifications at the turn of the century were not as exact as todays expectation. Folks were able to purchase manufacturers brand of ammo that the chamber was cut to and the gun regulated to! 100 years later and halfway around the world we have to learn to accept this and experiment and test various available ammo or take a good casting & have dies made for the chamber being used today. Get a good casting & slug your bore & take notes, once you know what you have and obtain you components its time for the fun to start! Feel free to contact me if I can be of any assistance.
M-4
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
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I did a search today for "Metric Centerfire Rifle Cartriges", I found three different 9.3x72R cartriges 9.3x72R
9.3x72R Sauer
9.3x72R Nimrod
All of these rounds are pretty close, but the Sauer and the Nimrod have a smaller rim dia.
Did some more checking for fit on a Emil Eckoldt, Suhl, drilling (no proof date) and found that the rim size on the oldest(?) rounds were to large for the extracter and the base dia. just ahead of the rim to large
My education continues.
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