doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Cross-eye dominant

I've been asked by just the cutest 33 yr.old blonde to teach her to shoot skeet. She has never shot any type of firearm before, but is really keen to learn.
Gun selection and training techniques are not an issue. What is a problem is that we discovered last night that she is right handed and left eye dominant.
What are some thoughts about this? Since she has never shot before, start her out learning to shoot left-handed? Make her shoot with the left eye closed? Cover the left lens of her shooting glasses? Take her out for dinner, or eat in?
Help!!

Left-handed.

jack

Try teaching her to shoot left handed. All the other options are still left to her and if she learns how to shoot left handed she gets to use both eyes. A real advantadge as it give her depth perception and two good eyes to she how to shoot behind all of her missed targets liek the rest of us do. .

I have the same dominence issue right handed and left eye. I was taught at a young age to shoot all types of weapons with my left eye closed. This was long before I even knew about eye dominence. I've never had a problem shooting like this, but when I tried to correct it by other meathods my shooting went in the can.

I would try getting her to shoot left handed but if she is a right handed person this may seem ackward,if so have her close her left eye.

Take her to dinner there's ample time to eat in!

Left-handed. It may take a while to warm her up to it but if she is that cute what's the hurry.

If you are a good cook , eat in. But if PB&J is your specialty make a reservation.

Bill G.

I suffer from cross-over when shooting targets from left to right, but not right to left.

Like dogon, I learned to shoot everything with one eye closed. I found that I can compensate for the loss of depth perception by starting off with low gun, both eyes open to see the target and gauge the depth. On mounting the gun, I close my right eye.

The best techinque is the one that works best for you, whatever that may be. You just have to be willing to put up with a lot of misses to find it.

Oh, yeah, take her to dinner too!

Definitely go left-handed. I'm left-handed but I shoot right-handed because of eye dominance. I learned it when I was a kid, and kids can adapt easier than 33-year olds can, but I really don't think shooting lefty will be much harder for her to learn than shooting righty - and in the long run she will shoot much better that way.

Take her out for dinner until ya'll get "close", then eat in (oh, the temptation......).

Left would be best but if that fails use a dot on her left lense.
bill

My granddaughter , who never shot before learned lefthanded because of the eye dominance problem . Paul

I heard somewhere that as many as 85% of right handed women are left eye dominant.

I heard that 85% of women want to be dominate and get lawyers to aid their cause.

Well, you gotta admit its a darn sight better than her being cross-eyed and dominant. Teaching one with those attributes how to shoot might prove something shy of intelligent.

My suggestion is that unless you are an instructor, to take her to dinner, but do it AFTER you have bought her some lessons with a qualified instructor. Certified/qualified instructors can make a world of dif VERY quickly, much quicker than you might, even if you have the best of intentions, but no experience in teaching or as a coach. I wish that I had access to a Pete Blakeley or a Richard Whaley when I was younger or just learning to shoot. I have had access to some wonderful shots as an adult, but that is still not the same thing as a qualified instructor. Some world class shots cannot teach you to tell time, let alone how to shoot. These are honest thoughts for the best return for your friend. Spend the money for lessons, save a bit for flowers, or shells as the case may be, and good luck bringing her into the fold, we need all the participants possible. BTW, women make for wonderful students, so be ready to get your ego drubbed if she really gets into it and you get her a good instructor. He will teach her to shoot left handed if she is left eye dominant, a common situation for many women and one I have fought in later life having gone from true neutral vision to left eye dominant exacerbated by using 'puters. I'd apologize for the length of this post, but ..

The advise is sound, please take it to heart. Just remember that the woman always chooses, so do it right.

edit: I never could spell or type, so you just gotta get past it.

Wow! SG Jones, 85% -- that's interesting.

I have similar experience that supports much of the advice above: Years ago, we discovered that my 31 year-old (then) wife was (and is) left-eye dominant, altho very right-handed.

I think that trying to start someone shooting on their master eye side makes a lot of sense. However, in my wife's case, shooting (or doing much of anything else)left didn't feel right.

The tape dot Bill S suggested works well for her. A smear of grease on the left lens of her shooting glasses works better. The key is to smear, lightly, just the area the left eye is trying to look thru in the shooting position. The advantage of this minimalist approach is the ability to see, with binnocular vision, everything else.

Yep, I use a Chapstick on the inside of my left lens with some frequency these days, being an old untrainable rightist kinda person. It works but I would be better shooting from my left shoulder when tired and the left eye takes over, but WTH, it never forewarns me when it is about to do that ... I always have a 'perfect' sight picture .. and that of course is the very crux of the problem.

Having a dominant eye makes it a very simple matter. Neutral vision is a bit harder cat to skin. It affects a VERY small percentage of people, something on the order of substantively < .2%, so I am told.

The suggested grease smear works quite well, thankfully.

Guys,
That's 85% of CUTE women want to be dominant.

I'm with those that suggest trying to get her to shoot lefthanded since she does't know the difference yet. And hey, maybe PB&J turns her on. Sounds like both are worth finding out about.

Whether to change to left handed shooting depends on how much time she has spent shooting right handed and how off dominant she is. Minor cross dominance is easily solved by a "dot". A proper dot must be very accurately placed if it is the desired small size. Accurate placement implies something more permanent than grease or chapstick. The area to be blocked is the front of the gun, anything past the front of the forend, including the muzzle. This blocked area is to be determined while the shooter is in shooting position. The purpose of the dot is to see the target and target background with both eyes yet only have a view of the gun's muzzle area with the shooting eye (aiming eye). Sorry to conflict with other posters' perceived purpose of the dot, but the dot is not meant to block the target. If you block the target, you are back to one eyed shooting.

Hammer guns have helped my cross eyes.
L.F.

Go Left...when I was just a boy I had discovered this problem, but I was small enough to be able to lay my chin over the stock of the 22 enough to look through the left eye (vision in right eye was poor indeed). As I grew this was not possible, so I simply mounted on the left shoulder. Really not a problem.

JLD

Don't say "sorry," Murphy -- you've added greatly to the discussion. We learned the trick years ago, and were told to use a dot about 1/2". It was clearly annoying so we evolved first to Magic Tape, then to a small grease smear. It has seemed to work well.

Your point of obscuring the muzzle end (only) of the gun from the off-eye's perspective creates an "ah-ha!" moment. I have no doubt it will work better, thank you!

I have a grandson who is cross dominant. Shortly after starting out on station 7 skeet it became very obvious. We switched to the left side and about a month later he hit 5 of 6 pheasants at the Jr. Pheasant hunt. If you just make the effort most can switch very successfully. Think about it, now you are pointing the gun with your dominant hand (the right) and the only thing the left has to do is ride the grip and pull the trigger. What is the big deal about doing either of those things with either hand. Oh yea, be sure to switch the lead foot when you switch sides. Rather awkward otherwise.

Some guys like a dot of black electrician's tape, some neutral masking tape, some semi transparent scotch type tape. I have evolved to the semi transparent. I have used all three and had good results with all. The grease or vaseline has not been satisfactory because I am a hot weather shooter and continually clean my lenses. The concept just doesn't work as well if I don't place the dot accurately and permanently. If you use the dot for hundreds of rounds of clay target practice, you have to use the same system when you go hunting unless you want to revert to closing one eye. There is nothing wrong with wearing your shooting glasses when you are hunting and the dot is there for you. It all depends on how badly you want to hit them.

We ALWAYS wear shooting glasses while hunting, and deliberately shoot clays low gun. (I'd much rather give up a couple of targets -- if in fact I do -- to maintain a consistent style. But trap never has been my thing.) The permanent magic tape dot makes a lot of sense, we'll try it.

Incidentally, here's something I learned years ago that surprised me and might help someone else: I'm blessed with super eyesight, but in my 40s my right (dominant) eye developed mild astigmatism before / greater than my left eye. I only discovered this because I started missing easy targets when I was tired at the end of the day (and light was poorer). I figured out I was cross-firing and got to an eye doc who fixed me right up. I've learned since that "acquired" cross dominance, due to unequal eye "aging," exascerbated by fatigue is NOT uncommon.

A half inch piece of scotch tape on their shooting glasses! Worked for my eldest son when he was twelve years old, twenty-two years later he still uses it.

wb, I see no reason to give up the system. I have used the dot for about 20 years in competition. When I lost most of the usable sight of my shooting (right) eye several years ago, I switched to the other side and switched the dot to my right lens. Whenever there is a cross dominance problem and you are shooting for money, you must block the muzzle view of the off eye or close it. Not many competitive shooters would choose the one eye shooting alternative. I would be the first to admit that it's not as important to a hunter as it is to a competition shooter. It all depends on how bad you want to hit them.

As virtually every poster has noted, starting a new shooter on the dominant eye side is the preferred solution. While it may take longer initially to feel comfortable, once coordination and muscle memory take over through repetition of motion, it will be the only "natural" way for her to shoot. If she's hesitant to shoot from the opposite side, you should point out that the lead hand is what controls muzzle position and since she's now able to use her dominant right hand as the "pointer" it's actually not a handicap at all.

On the other hand (no pun intended) some people can never get comfortable switching sides. Then follow eightbore's comments about using an opaque dot positioned so that only the muzzle is blocked when the gun is mounted to face. Too large a dot, or one that is any way obtrusive to seeing well enough to even walk around with comfort is too much.

Left is the first best thing you can suggest. A qualified instructor is the second best thing you can get her. And reservations at a good restaurant will keep you both happy until she learns to shoot and you learn to cook.

I agree with sharpsrifle. I posted a lot of information on the dot concept because I know a lot about its application. I agree with all that say that changing sides is the best idea for a new shooter. The dot is choice number two.

Thanks for all the advise. She is open to all methods and remains committed to learning to shoot. In fact she relishes the chance to resolve a problem she never knew she had! It is refreshing to introduce a "blank slate" to our sport- no preconcieved notions or years of macho/ego driven bad shooting techniques to overcome.

I'm currently teaching her as much shotgun technica as she'll absorb. Safe gun handling and body positioning and a proper smooth mount will be second nature before she ever slips a shell in the chamber.

The Miroku 20ga. o/u feels the best to her although she fancies a friend's Beretta 20/28/.410 3-bbl combo more. Just what I need, a woman with expensive tastes in guns!

By the way, I'm an excellent cook. We eat-in more than out.

If an inexperienced shooter is switched to the off-side, the comfort and aggression level is diminished greatly, leading to apprehensive swing starts and slow deliberate movements. To compensate for these deficiencies, especially in skeet, attention to foot position and hold point will help a lot. Make sure the foot position is turned farther toward the break point and the hold point is somewhat exaggerated so lead does not have to be established by an agressive swing. An agressive swing is quite difficult and uncomfortable for a shooter switching sides. A "side switching" shooter should go for a long hold point and a short move to the shot and attention to follow through. Murphy