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Forums10
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Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 184 Likes: 1
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 184 Likes: 1 |
The way the neck expanded could it be saying 6.5x58P?
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,502 Likes: 212
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,502 Likes: 212 |
R.Marshall I think you can forget about the 260 or anything on the 308 case, they are too short. I'm leaning now toward 6.5x55 as suggested by SKB. I wouldn't think a 6.5x57 cartridge would chamber in a 6.5x55, but maybe there are enough tolerance differences in the right places to allow it. I note the 12.18 mm measurement you got from the fired case is about the same as the head diameter listed for the 6.5x55. My brother had a 6.5x55 rifle and used American cases in it( I think Rem., but maybe Win.). These cases did not have the larger head diameter, rather, they had the same size as 30-06/308/270. If you try an American 6.5x55 cartridge then, it will likely expand a lot also. It is hard to tell from the photo of the fired case, but it seems it has shortened some. This is common when a case expands a good bit ( the brass has to come from somewhere). Also I still believe the 6.5x58 P. has too much taper in the case and neck to be the correct cartridge. I went back to the earlier posts and the rifle does have the early type firing pin, I believe. Can you post a photo of the tip of the firing pin? You still have the problem of light firing pin strikes we have to work out(it would still be good to measure the firing pin protrusion). Mike
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Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 184 Likes: 1
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 184 Likes: 1 |
Here is a picture of the PPU 6.5X57 unfired and fired in the problem rifle and some norma 6.5x55 unfired and fired in a Swede I onced owned.
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Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 184 Likes: 1
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 184 Likes: 1 |
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,502 Likes: 212
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,502 Likes: 212 |
R.Marshall, Now I'm back to my original assessment that it is chambered for 6.5x57. This is based on the photo, showing fired and unfired 6.5x57 and 6.5x55 cartridges. We still have the problem of the failure to fire. Except for the spring, the parts in the bolt are 120 year old original parts. Parts don't grow over time, and the rifle wouldn't have lasted through mounting and sighting in of two scopes and 120 years of use if it didn't reliably fire. From the photos, I can't see any repairs that may have been botched. This leaves us with very few possibilities for the cause(s) of the problem. If you told us earlier, I don't remember if it cocks on opening or on closing, and does the sear have the same number as the bolt parts? One of the most obvious changes during the transition was the shroud lock that was added but which was not added to your rifle. The reason for the lock was to prevent the shroud from "unscrewing" itself from the bolt during use. If the shroud is one thread short of being "turned up", there would likely be a failure to fire. The bolt body fits into the shroud when assembled, a foreign object inside the shroud could prevent it being "turned up" fully. The firing pin has three lugs, onto which the "nut" or cocking piece turns. You might assemble the bolt with one fewer of these lugs in the cocking piece, and check the firing pin protrusion in that mode. It is hard to troubleshoot a problem without the rifle "in hand", it is easy to miss something that would be obvious if you can handle the rifle. Mike
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Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 292 Likes: 25
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 292 Likes: 25 |
Small ring receivers were a little soft and maybe the locking recess has been set back just a bit. The fired case should be a better fit than an unfired. Put a primer in the fired case without sizing and see if it fires reliably.
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Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 184 Likes: 1
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 184 Likes: 1 |
The shroud is screwed down to it meets the bolt handle and the cocking piece will only go on all the way. I'm guessing I'll have to find a firing pin.
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,502 Likes: 212
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,502 Likes: 212 |
R.Marshall, You can get another firing pin and modify it, but you should keep the one that is in it as it is now. The last photo above shows the firing pin alone has plenty protrusion. Other photos show much less protrusion with the assembled bolt. I don't remember that you measured the protrusion, even though you have a dial caliper. I have found from making other firing pins that you must have enough protrusion that the primer stops the forward motion rather than the pin "bottoming out" on something. This transfers the energy to the primer, rather than some part of the rifle. Let us know what the problem is when you find it. Mike
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Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 184 Likes: 1
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 184 Likes: 1 |
Mike thanks for your help.
I wonder which would be easier modifying a cocking piece or modifying a firing pin? or would messing with the cocking piece mess the bolt timing up? Because really it is the cocking piece bottoming out that is stoping the firing pin.
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,502 Likes: 212
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,502 Likes: 212 |
R.Marshall, The transitional actions are intermediate length, I believe. This might give you a little to work with. You will have to modify the front end of the new firing pin any way to remove the two "lugs" that are not needed in the transitional action. It will take some careful measuring to come up with what you need. You may find the rear part of the firing pin too long, but I have modified standard length pins for use in intermediate actions. I did this by filing another groove ahead of the others at the rear and filed off the last lug that locks the cocking piece on and shortening the end to match the cocking piece. If you want to try modifying the cocking piece, get another one to work on and save the original parts. If you move the cocking piece forward, you will have to move the cut for the safety backward. This is confusing but when you examine the parts you will understand. Mike
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