doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Using a hammergun?

Some modern hammer-guns have a safety. My CZ "Traditional" has one and I've seen others, nicer ones that do as well. I still do not feel right carrying mine with the hammers back and safety on. As safe I guess as any standard modern double, but seeing the hammers back still freaks me out...Geo

"Lloyd you best be damn careful walking lonely grouse trails by yourself with a cocked hammergun. If you cock it at least open the action"

But walking with a cocked hammerless is OK? Maybe we should consider what the situation is inside a cocked gun of each type. The rebounding hammer gun with its safety bent on the tumbler is arguably safer than a boxlock, even one with the safety engaged. But as the post above says, with a hammer gun you can see the hammers, whereas with a hammerless you cannot, so if they are cocked, (which happens every time you open and close the gun)
, it is a case of out of sight out of mind.

If the hammers were easier to cock with one sweep of the thumb it would be easier to hunt with the hammer gun.

The mystery is the use of such strong springs on hammer guns. A single action revolver has tougher primers than a shotgun yet it can be cocked with a sweep of the thumb s it is being drawn. An autoloader's hammer spring is so gentle it can be compressed with the little finger and they set off primers just fine.

Cowboy action shooters tune their hammer guns so that both hammers can be swept back with the left hand, for right handed guns. They do not seem to suffer any misfires.

One possible reason for the stiffness of hammer springs is found in Hawker's book and involves percussion muzzle loaders. The hammer spring was strong so as to keep the hammer down against gas pressure rising through the nipple. Tradition and all that probably brought those stiff muzzle loader springs to the breech loader hammer gun. Gough Thomas had a point when he accused gunmakers of mental inertia.

Generally, bar action sidelock hammer guns are easier (require less applied force) to cock than back action guns. Having said this I have seen old cheap'n nasty back action guns with weak springs and poor sear-tumbler engagement. These are potentially very dangerous.

Regarding the inference of superior (aka "foolproof") safety of the rebounding lock hammer gun is a statement requiring some qualification. The picture posted by BrentD of a bar action hammergun leaning against a sapling demonstrates the potential risk involved. In resting a loaded uncocked gun of this type against/amongst timber/foliage potential the risk of snagging a hammer and pulling it past the half-cock position but not to full cock there is a real danger when the gun is grabbed to take a passing shot. Back action guns with strong locks are probably less liable to this scenario.
Obviously other factors than spring strength are involved in the degree of stiffness to cock a hammer gun, notably the size of the hammer and length from ear to axle.

Greener recommended carrying a hammergun at full cock and since I usually hunt alone, I do too. If hunting with others, I bring a hammerless to avoid any issues. Where I live a sxs is considered to be very old and potentially dangerous. A damascus gun is a "bomb" waiting to go off and hammerguns are poorly understood. I do leave a hammergun uncocked in a boat or blind while hunting ducks.

I'm pretty tired of unsolicited advice of why I would be better off with a new Benelli or Beretta so I am happier hunting on my own.

[quote=Shotgunlover]"Lloyd you best be damn careful walking lonely grouse trails by yourself with a cocked hammergun. If you cock it at least open the action"

But walking with a cocked hammerless is OK?

How could you possibly infer this?

Lloyd 3. The Adams is a second line London maker gun but it is just as good as the Purdey and in some respects better. This gun was a working for a living gun on both sides of the fence from Victorian times Game Keeping/Poaching. The Violin case was at the time very intentional well here in Brit land no one would pay it much attention walking with it or being in the back of an Automobile or Van (I do not have any idea what you call small Vans on your side of the pond). The gun did belong to the last member of a Poaching family whose great grandfather kept and fed a family of eight on the proceeds of poaching, his grand farther did the same though he did work at keapering his farther worked on both sides of the fence more keapering than poaching. And not to elaborate to much the last owner passed all the finer and practical points of poaching to me as well as the the gun . I kept the gun in all of my vehicles well you did not know when the opportunity would come for a little poaching. The gun is a 12 gauge but no other side by side gun I owned would ever fit in this violin case. I did think of putting down on paper my poaching exploits with the gun in the violin case though they do say "discretion is the better part of valour " so up to now I am still thinking about it. The gun has a top strap that is not very common.











I did forget to say that Here in Brit land Poaching is a clandestine undertaking carried out in the dark extremely silently , the Barking iron" is for the exception not the normal.

I think all of us who grew up hunting pheasants dogless can recall the surprise and shock when a rooster pheasant exploded from cover.

Damascus: Both of your guns are truly spectacular, but I think that I am more drawn to the Adams. That top strap is indeed unusual, as is the case, and the story behind them is a fascinating insight as-well to a world long-past. If I remember correctly, it was missing it's forend wedge when we last saw it here? It looks like you've found it again, which is wonderful. Poaching can be a fine art (which is underappreciated here, I suspect). If it is done out of desperation (or at least real-need), then I'm not terribly offended by it... as long as the game is properly consumed and appreciated by the hungry souls receiving it. Many a backwoods family (where I grew up) had venison & even trout in their diet that was well out-of-season when times were hard. I also suspect that the statute-of-limitations has long-passed for any exploits of your own, so please...feel free to elaborate on them here if you feel comfortable. Purloined food, in any form, is likely have it's own special spice.

Eeb: Walking cocked comes with some risk, I'll grant you, and I never did it unconsciously or when it put others in danger. When I was sure of my footing and when I was convinced game was near I took that calculated risk. Life is full of risks and many take them without much of a thought about it (been on a 6-lane highway lately?).