doublegunshop.com - home Forums Thread Like Summary - Dating early 20th Century French Shotguns

Ted in a separate line asked how I could date a Saint-Etienne 16 gauge accurately. I've chosen to start a new line to keep from "jumping the shark" on that one.

I’ve been looking for a early 20th century Saint-Etienne fusil de chasse for some time. French guns are very difficult to date we all agree. Using the usual markers (prizes won, models, catalogs, patents, etc) might get us into the ball park. But there are two items that will definitely narrow down an earl 20th century period piece:
...1) use of cm to denote chambering would mean it was pre-1912? (it would be interesting to find out the exact date this changed from cm to mm): and
...2) Didier-Drevet barrels are dated and have a serial number.

I wonder if there are more examples of dated Stephanois guns? For background (and it's been discussed before ) here are a few dated Didier-Drevet barrels from the internet (reorganized chronologically): -- (images back thanks to jpgbox)

1). 1878 Didier-Drevet fusil (damascus) date on the gun (not the barrel). 65m Chambers.



http://www.tircollection.com/t18880-un-beau-fusil-de-chasse-sobre-et-elegant

2). 1900 12 gauge:
Didier-Drevet Acier Mandrine (Mandrel Steel) (Mandrine means "turned on a mandrel or lathe"; un Mandrin is a Mandrel; Mandrine is an adjective modifying the feminine noun Acier) Canon Plume barrels; 18.4; 6.5; 1900 - 8971



http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=396092&page=all

3) 1904 from a Russian site:
Didier-Drevet Eureka Canon Plume barrels; 18.4; 6.5; 1904 - 11046
http://img.allzip.org/g/1/orig/15625032.jpg



4) 1905 Cyrillic site:
Didier-Drevet Eureka Canon Plume: 1905 - 11604 (unclear)
http://arc.violity.com/ruzhe-didier-drevet-1900-g-12132152



5) 1906 16 gauge with 7cm chambers: The is Ed Good’s gun previously posted. I discussed this with Ed and he assured me a chamber gauge showed them to be 2 3/4”. I told him it had to have been rechambered. Then noticed this little “7” on the barrel flats (7cm). It does indeed seem to be a 1906 with 2 3/4” chambers.
Photo deleted: Didier-Drevet Eureka Canon Plume barrels Stamped 17.0; 7; 1906 - 11985




6) 1906 Didier-Drevet 12 bore from 1906 with 7cm chambers:
Didier-Drevet Eureka Canon Plume barrels; 18.4; 7; 1906 - 12076



7). 1908 Per able2zero, Shotgunworld:
Didier-Drevet Eureka Canon Plume barrels: 17.0; 6.5; 1908 - 12740
http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=223806

8). 1910 12 gauge with chambers labeled 6.5. The seller advertised the gun as having 2 3/4” chambers. I asked him about this - he claimed “6.5” had nothing to with 65mm and the chambers were as advertised. If so, it’s been relieved:
(photo deleted - Didier-Drevet Eureka Canon Plume barrels labeled 18.4; 6.5; 1910 - 13185



9). 1918 Didier-Drevet - Skeetz's gun:
Didier-Drevet Eureka Canon Plume barrels; 18.4; 65; 1918 - 14204





There must be some additional info someplace: The French magazine “Armes de Chasse” issue nr 42, Juillet - aot - septembre 2011 had an article under Collection titled Le trio Didier-Drevet.

Salut Argo,

Ne t'embête pas trop avec ce fusil. Les canons ont été coupés après les chambres et ont été remplacés avec des nouveaux par frettage.

Now I'm looking for dated Didier-Drevet barrels from 1918 - 1924. But still, this 1901 Darne fitted with DD barrels 1901 - 9451, Darne gun SN "1508", is interesting. Normally without a picture of the barrels and flats I wouldn't post the gun but the description has integrity.

https://www.proxibid.com/Guns-Milit...G-BREECH-SHOTGUN/lotInformation/55657580

DARNE V SERIES 12 GA SBS SLIDING BREECH SHOTGUN | Darne V Series 12 gauge side-by-side sliding breech shotgun. 2.5" chamber. 27.5" barrels. 13" & 13.75" LOP. Matching serial numbers throughout. Bottom of barrel flat reads: "Non Pour La Ball *choke* Eureka," St. Etienne," "Canons Plume," 18.4" indicating 12 GA bore and 6.5 indicating 2 1/2" chamber. Fusil Pour Poudre Pyroxylle," Medaille 1855," Didier Drevet," Cannonnien a St Etienne," "Modele Depose," "Canons De Sjrfte Garanti Double Epreuve," "1901.9451," and crown over "PS" proof mark. Highly decorative floral engraving on receiver, barrel shank, trigger guard and T lever. | Provenance: | Search: “Buie” within this auction catalog to filter & view all of the Col. Walter Buie lots included in this auction. | WWII War Trophy Collection & Military Archive of Col. Walter Buie | Only recently discovered, the extensive WWII War Trophy Firearm & Militaria Collection of Colonel Walter Buie has been stored away within the original boxes and trunks in which the items were shipped back by Buie from his WWII service in both the European and Pacific Theaters. | The Buie collection is comprised of hundreds of pieces, acquired by Buie while stationed in Germany and Japan. The war trophies were then packed into trunks and wooden crates for shipment back to the States. When found, the items were still contained within the original trunks and crates. Opening each was an exciting discovery, akin to opening a time capsule where one did now know what historical artifacts await. | Centurion Auctions, auctioneers & appraisers specializing in wartime collectibles and firearms, have been commissioned to bring the Buie collection to market. | The firearms are included in the August 2020 Firearm Auction and consist of approximately 50 pieces, many of which are quite scarce. | The military collectibles are included in the September 2020 Wartime Collectible Auction and include hundreds of items. Also included in the militaria session are personal items related to Buie and his military career. | Colonel Walter Daniel Buie (1900-1986) was born in Nashville, Georgia, and graduated from the United States Military Academy West Point in 1920. He served in various military positions in the United States and abroad for the next 24 years, and in 1941 was assigned as an instructor at Command and General Staff School at Fort Leavenworth, Kansas. In 1942 he was promoted to colonel. He became chief of staff for the 97th Infantry Division at Fort Leavenworth in 1943, and soon after was reassigned as chief of staff to the newly-activated XXIII Corps at Camp Bowie, Texas. On September 5, 1944, Buie was named regiment commanding officer of the 272d Infantry Regiment (“Battle Axe Regiment”) of the 69th Infantry Division. Shortly after, the 272d Infantry was sent overseas, first to England and then to France, Belgium and Germany. In March 1945, the 272d Infantry occupied the front line position of the Siegfried Line, pushing back the German Army, before advancing to the Rhine River. The 272d continued its path across Germany, capturing Fortress Ehrenbreitstein and clearing over 35 towns along the way, including Leipzig. The 272d Infantry eventually made contact with the Russian Army in Berlin in late April, after the Russian Army had already taken the city. The war in Europe ended with V-E Day a few days later. Colonel Buie was immediately transferred to the Pacific Theater, where he served as chief of staff for the 25th Infantry Division and was present for V-J Day. After the war ended, Buie stayed in occupied Japan at the headquarters of General Douglas MacArthur’s Far Eastern Command. He returned home to the United States and retired from the military in 1954. He held various government positions after retirement, including with the Federal Civil Defense Administration and the Office of Emergency Preparedness. Buie died in 1986. | Caliber / Gauge: 12 GA | Barrel Length: 27.5" | Serial Number: 1508 | | Condition: Very good. Very good bores. Shows some wear, age and loss to finish. Some minor oxidation marks on barrel. Functions properly. | Est. $700-1000