doublegunshop.com - home Forums Thread Like Summary - Using a hammergun?

Reading documents today that would paralyze a monk. Needing a distraction, I began pondering the usual things and settled on what my next gun might look like. Clearly, it needs to fit me but, beyond that, how would I really use it? I've tried to hunt grouse with a dainty little 20-bore hammergun before and found that not to work so well for me (grouse are pretty unforgiving). When speed is of the essence, cocking two hammers just wasn't working for me. I still think hammerguns are gorgeous and want another but... I'd like to understand just how I might use it. Targets are clearly going to a bigger part of that use, and that means 12-gauge and then something a bit more substantial. I'm guessing that more-significant weight (instead of game-gun weight) would be an advantage here, like 7lbs plus and longer barrels, to make volume shooting easier on the user. It needs to be damascus (because I like damascus) and I'd prefer a back-action gun (because I like how they look). Past that, anything goes. Rebounding hammers are nice but not necessary and I've even come to appreciate the Jone underlever. Long story short, this isn't a necessary tool but it's something I keep coming back to. Alot of the guns I've looked at are short and have substantial drop, many have too-much of the wrong cast for a southpaw like me. Also, having some form of choke would be nice and many (if not most) of the guns I've examined so-far have almost none. Finding perfection is probably going to be tough here.

I love all the comments here as I use a hammergun for almost all of my shooting and I am also left-handed. Most guns fit me even ones with lots of cast off. I believe they are elegant works of art that still perform superbly in the field. I have over 90 sxs shotguns from 4 gauge to .410 and lower. About 70 of them are hammerguns. I have acquired all of the gauges even the weird ones like 24 and 32 gauge. I obviously don't need anymore but that hasn't stopped me from buying at least 4 or 5 per year. I love the different action and locking mechanisms of the Victorian era where every maker seemed to be trying to get an edge on the competition by building a better mousetrap. I am a sucker for side levers, snap actions, thumb levers, Horsley and Pape patent guns, etc. I use them in vintage shooting competitions and exclusively for upland birds. I generally only look for damascus barreled guns. I mostly shoot low pressure smokeless but I love to shoot black powder shells at the gun club and wake everybody up with that first shot especially if they don't know it is coming. I don't think there is anything more elegant than an 1870's era hammergun with tall hammers, heel and toe plates, and spectacular wood. Long live the hammergun!

Hammer shotguns have a special place in my heart. The first shotgun I bought was a hammer sxs 16ga. I still do most of m hunting with one.

I was shooting this 16ga drilling and found a couple of 2.5" NP BB loads in the van so took it coyote hunting, no ammo for the rifle barrel along but called this one int 40 yards


Ducks and geese with 7/8 oz of ITX 6's in my Husky 51




They aren't fancy but are a pleasure to hunt with.

My first hammer shotgun circa 1965, I killed a lot of grouse, woodcock, pheasants, rabbits and ducks back in WI with this guy.

Greener recommended carrying a hammergun at full cock and since I usually hunt alone, I do too. If hunting with others, I bring a hammerless to avoid any issues. Where I live a sxs is considered to be very old and potentially dangerous. A damascus gun is a "bomb" waiting to go off and hammerguns are poorly understood. I do leave a hammergun uncocked in a boat or blind while hunting ducks.

I'm pretty tired of unsolicited advice of why I would be better off with a new Benelli or Beretta so I am happier hunting on my own.

I think the best looking SXS is barren without hammers. I do have some without, but the beauty and elegance of the hammers puts the right touch on the truly special SXS. I have a few that aren't pristine, but carry a pedigree of history that makes up for the wear of use over time...

Both are lovely guns but...both well-exceed what I can justify investing in such a artifact. The gun LeFusel just sold here would have likely been about right.

Or there’s mine with original Damascus barrels…

https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...very-good-condition.cfm?gun_id=102244521

Lloyd3,
You are experienced and competent enough that you shouldn't have that much trouble learning the drill. Just buy a gun you think will work for you and use it. Just cock one hammer at first and pretty soon you will find yourself able to cock both of them. When you were learning to drive, I'm pretty sure you ground the gears a few times but then you learned to coordinate the clutch, shift lever, and accelerator. Now it is probably second nature to you, and it will be the same for a hammergun with a little use. It is true that they are not as easy as a hammerless gun with a tang safety, but if it was, we wouldn't have hammerless guns. Just remember, you can do whatever the old hunters could do.
Mike

Gentlemen: I'm used to pretty civilized trails up in the "Nort" country. I wouldn't mess with a hammergun in anything much less stable than that.



This one was unmowed last year and I'd use modern stuff here...



Saw my only woodcock on this one last year.

No hammerguns here either...

If you will consider subgauges, you will find it easier with barrels that simply closer together. The Evans 16 gauge was a dream to hunt with so far as carrying and cocking the gun goes. It was mounting the gun that was a problem. But only due to its lack of drop.

I find hunting wild pheasants with a flushing dog to be very doable with the right hammer gun. I think sharptails would be no different. I have not tried to hunt ruffed grouse however. And I don't intend to with a hammer gun. I do not see that being very productive.

If you hunt long enough in cold, wet weather, there will come a time when you will slip the hammer while decocking the left barrel. It is not an if, but a when. With perfect muzzle awareness and control, that should not be anything more than an unpleasant surprise. But keep that in mind.

BrentD: I wouldn't even consider it otherwise. Compared to what I used to hunt in Pennsylvania, Minnesota has been a cake walk.



and this is without the usual tangles...

"Lloyd you best be damn careful walking lonely grouse trails by yourself with a cocked hammergun. If you cock it at least open the action"

But walking with a cocked hammerless is OK? Maybe we should consider what the situation is inside a cocked gun of each type. The rebounding hammer gun with its safety bent on the tumbler is arguably safer than a boxlock, even one with the safety engaged. But as the post above says, with a hammer gun you can see the hammers, whereas with a hammerless you cannot, so if they are cocked, (which happens every time you open and close the gun)
, it is a case of out of sight out of mind.

greener4me: I've not heard the comparison of cocking a back-action lock to a bar-action lock before this. Is this well-established or is this something you've observed over time? If the bar-lock guns do provide a significant advantage here I may have to revise my search.

If I were to find myself walking a lonely grouse trail with a hammergun, I'd likely have to consider cocking both hammers (with the barrels safely pointed up) in the more "grousey" places as a preparatory move. I wouldn't do that if I had a companion, nor would I in the more-awkward places...

Presuming that I was to get comfortable with the concept (yet again), then a true game-gun weighted option would be the next step. A proper single-barrel hammergun would also be fun to try out sometime (sadly, I probably have more "wants" than the time to actually pursue them). All great fun to contemplate, right?

DerAmi: Funny that you should compare them to clutch operated vehicles. We have two of them here and inevitably when I climb into one I have to stop and think about it for a minute and then go right back to when that was "normal". The older one (from the 60s) is much easier as the pedals are big and well spaced apart. The newer one always gives me fits with my big feet (size 14).

Carrying the hammer gun open and cocked as per Gene Hill's method means that the top lever can be worked with the right hammer cocked, something not available on all, maybe most, hammer guns.

Re the safety thing of when to cock the hammers and how that compares with the tang safety. Hammer guns with rebound hammers have a safety bent that will catch the hammer if it starts to fall without a trigger pull. Most hammerless SXS guns, ie boxlocks and almost all autoloader and repeaters lack such a feature.

The safety does not protect from accidental sear release. In most guns it only blocks the trigger. So arguably a cocked hammer gun is safer than a hammerless (without intercepting sears), even if the safety of the hammerless is engaged.

Lloyd 3. The Adams is a second line London maker gun but it is just as good as the Purdey and in some respects better. This gun was a working for a living gun on both sides of the fence from Victorian times Game Keeping/Poaching. The Violin case was at the time very intentional well here in Brit land no one would pay it much attention walking with it or being in the back of an Automobile or Van (I do not have any idea what you call small Vans on your side of the pond). The gun did belong to the last member of a Poaching family whose great grandfather kept and fed a family of eight on the proceeds of poaching, his grand farther did the same though he did work at keapering his farther worked on both sides of the fence more keapering than poaching. And not to elaborate to much the last owner passed all the finer and practical points of poaching to me as well as the the gun . I kept the gun in all of my vehicles well you did not know when the opportunity would come for a little poaching. The gun is a 12 gauge but no other side by side gun I owned would ever fit in this violin case. I did think of putting down on paper my poaching exploits with the gun in the violin case though they do say "discretion is the better part of valour " so up to now I am still thinking about it. The gun has a top strap that is not very common.











I did forget to say that Here in Brit land Poaching is a clandestine undertaking carried out in the dark extremely silently , the Barking iron" is for the exception not the normal.

Personal experience . 4, 8, 10, 12, 14, 16, 20 .....

Lloyd,
You seem well aware of the fact that a hammer gun won’t make Grouse hunting any easier. Is this something for the local pet and shoot, or, is this to be your “go-to” gun in the fall?

I think of hammer guns about the same way I think of a an old MG TC model. Elegant as hell, but not something you would rely on for your daily transportation needs. It would be great if someone had a TC (or, a Shelby Cobra, the one with the 289 and the 8 Weber carbs) that they would loan me on a sunny afternoon, so I could get that nonsense out of my system. Having any of the above around, full time, would be cool, but, might be a pain in the ass, especially the part about watching a Grouse fly away as you muff the cocking of the hammers, one more time.

Ponder this a bit more. Me, I don’t need any more guns, I need time enough to make use of the ones I’ve got.

Best,
Ted

I started shooting muzzle loaders in the mid seventy's and my first SXS was a cheap European import in 20 gauge. The hammers were quite stiff and difficult to cock at the same time. I learned to hunt with my thumb on the left hammer and cock it as the bunnies bolted, then I could cock the right hammer as I was mounting the gun.....LK