Hi Fellas,



I’ve taken something on that I may regret, but I’ve contacted Lyman Products about resurrecting a product that they discontinued back in the 1960’s when roll crimping fell out of vogue.

At that time, and for many years prior, Lyman produced a little roll crimping head in the various gauges that chucked up in either a hand-held drill or drill press. They even made a large, hand-crank tool designed around these heads called the Lyman Ideal ‘Star’ Roll-Crimper.

Those of you that have had the pleasure of using this small roll-crimping head know that it turned out beautifully tight roll crimps far beyond what today’s reloading supply houses are offering. The key to quality here is likely Lyman’s six small ‘bumps’ (or rollers) within the head that effect such a nice turn-over………whereas modern roll crimpers often have just one, or possibly two such rollers. I’ve used one of Lyman’s 12 ga. crimpers for rolling Federal paper loads (pictured) for the various vintage shoots I attend and have had folks claim they looked better than the vintage crimps from many years ago. A good friend uses one for his plastic Federal 16 ga. loads (also pictured) with much satisfaction…… as they sure look pretty.

So what’s my commission from Lyman, you are asking? Well, none actually, but I do need a quality 16 ga. roll crimper and have gotten Lyman to possibly reconsider once again manufacturing this item …..based on shooter response.

So, I’ve offered to float this information around on a few of the shotgun-related boards to query what interest might be out there for their tool in 16 ga., 10 ga., and possibly 20. I’ll provide Lyman the links to these threads, with their assurance that they will review shooter response and decide whether it merits a limited run.

A very helpful woman in their Product Development Div. even went so far as to rummage around the plant and discovered a dusty box of a dozen 12 ga. roll crimpers from the end of production, which are being made available for $18. ea (less shipping) through their Customer Service Dept. Attn. Nancy, (800) 225-9626. (Consider that most of today’s crappier ones run @ $30. a pop!) Once these dozen Lyman crimpers are gone, they are truly gone, but ordering one would at least give you the opportunity to see for yourselves just how well they do work.

But more importantly, I’m needing to hear if any of you would likely purchase this little tool from Lyman - if remanufactured – as well as positive reports from those of you that have and still use this product. I’d ask that you remember the Lyman folks will be reviewing all of this so please keep it polite, concise, and to the point. Who knows, but with the current resurgence in vintage shooting and loads, we might convince them to make a one-time limited run in 20 up through 10 gauge.

Stranger things have happened, and ‘Thanks’ in advance to all of you who choose to contribute your thoughts.


Rob Harris

Conner, MT

I just now ordered one of the 12 gauge crimpers so there are only 11 left. Also urged them to start making them again in 12 and 16 gauge.
nial

Yes Sir! I think they crimp the best! Good market for Lyman as the ones now avilable are junk compared to Lyman's old one! I'd like to have one in 10ga, 16ga, and 20ga Lyman.... I have 12
Robt, you think they could be talked into a special run if they are nervous about bring them back as a ctalog item?

DorN

Ten gauge is what people need because the only cheap empties available are 3 1/2" and when you cut them off, there is no crimp memory for a star crimp. A roll crimp is the only sensible way to load those things as far as I'm concerned. I would also like an eight gauge, but I won't hold my breath.

Well, that's a question I'm hoping to eventually get an answer to from the folks at Lyman. I'm just appreciative that they'll even review these responses and decide if there is a market, limited or not.

Eightbore,

I concur that the Lyman 10 gauge head is just as much needed as the 16 at this point, but now that the few 12 ga. ones will soon be sold out, my wish is that all three of these gauges could one day be again available. I've a 'ten' that I'm about to be handloading for and could sorely use one. No luck finding one so far.....


All Best,


Rob

I'd like one in 16.

Rob, I love your over shot cards. Where did you get those!

Hi Dave,

They are actually made up and printed off the home computer. Mine are the Harris & Hussy ones (as shown, and not to be confused with Harrison & Hussey, the gunmaker) as my wife can be a bit of a 'tart', but more truthfully, helps with the assembly of these 12 ga. black powder loads. The purple sixteen with the airborne pigeon was done by a good friend who is much more adept on the computer than I, and in fact, helped me with the design of my over-shot card. You can set these up to get about 150 cards out of one 8-1/2" x 11" sheet of heavy card stock. Then either punch them out or cut them out at your leisure.

I'll warn you though, you wouldn't want to use them with your name on them if heisting the corner convenience store as they do end up everywhere! .....but at least they are biodegradeable and fun to use in the old, vintage guns. Glad you liked them.....

Rob

I have a 10 and 12ga. would buy a 16 and 20

I'd certainly take one in 10 gauge if it were offered. And I'd probably stockpile a 12 and a 16 as well, just to have them in case I ever went to short shells in either gauge.

I also would be interested in a set.

I'd like a 16 ga!

I would be froggy for a 12 & 16 set.

If the price is right, I would take one in each gauge, including .410. I don't even own a 10 gauge, but I'd buy the 10-crimper just for later. Do I get any priority because I still have a Lyman Easy Loader?

Does anyone know where I could find a picture of Lyman's tool for hand turning these role crimping heads? I'd like to try to make one.
nial

5 left

I just called and they are out. The lady said that they were swamped with calls for them. This might inspire them to make more

Nial;
Not absolutely positive, but I seem to recall one being shown in one of the pics on the recent thread about vintage loading tools. Has been in the last week or so, should be easy to find. If not they are pictured in the older Lyman loading manuals, if someone around you has one.
Fun reloading tools; I brought it to the top, there are two pictured on the first page in different poasts.

nialmac,

Here's a picture of the old Lyman Ideal 'Star' Crimper. Great price in 1956 for sure! Lyman again making these machines would be a thought? They use the same 'head' as we are discussing by the way. Good luck on your project.

Oh, and I almost forgot to mention that Lyman's Product Development just now sent me an e-mail asking you folks to kindly cease and desist with the orders for the few remaining 12 ga. roll crimp heads, as they sold out of them in short order this morning upon opening. They 'Thank You' for your interest, and assured me they'd keep an eye on this thread which is being posted on various boards. And 'Thanks' from me to all of you so far that have given input for the hopeful return of this nifty tool.


All Best,

Rob

I have one of those Ideal star tools shown in the last post in 16 gauge. I also have a 12 gauge head. Does anyone know how to swap out heads? I havent been able to remove the 16 gauge head.
Thanks
Lawrence

FWIW, they have no parts left for the Lyman Easy Loader. Bummer.

Hello All

Take a look at these


For hand crimping


For crimp head held in drill press to slow the spindle speed WAY DOWN

Enjoy the day
Mike

i would be in for all gauges

Not totally sure, Lawrence, not ever having had my hands on the complete machine. I was always under the assumption that one would unthread the gauge-specific collet from the threaded drive spindle and replace with the other gauge as needed. (See photo of turn-over head in my initial post). I could be all wet on this, but will stick by it until I learn differently.

Are the roll crimp heads to your machine different in appearance from what I've shown? If not, could the one head now in place be rusted on or gummed up to where it is reluctant to come off?

Also, my 'Thanks' for all of your interest/responses so far for this former Lyman product......we'll need to keep it coming if we hope to gain the company's attention.

Rob

I'll step-up and commit to a full set.

How about contacting some of the reloading supply houses and see if they would have an interest in stocking them. This would give Lyman a long term reason to put them back into production.

Come on Lyman get the machines cranked up!

Hi, The crimp heads on my machine look the same. The head looks threaded on but I think it might be welded as well. Its really tight and no where to get leverage to unscrew it.
Is it just me or the orange machines I have seen in person, mine included dont have theat riser attachment with the belt.
Mine has a handle on the large wheel whcih could take a belt to a motor if desired.

Rob,

Nice effort. 3 years there was a long discussion here about 16ga paper hulls. A small group even went so far as to looking into placing a bulk order with the manufacturer. Eventually we spoke at length with Mike Graf. As a result, Mike committed to offering them for only 1 year, 50,000 hulls, to test the market. Today, he is still selling them:
http://www.grafs.com/product/227202

Keep it up. It helps to call and speak to some one in management. Most are very reasonable and responsive to the shooting community. Ask Tinker, Mike Harrell, or Chuck H, they were all involved.

Pete

Ideal handbook #27 (first one published after purchase by Lyman in 1925) shows #1, #2 & #3 Star crimpers. #1 simply has a hand crank attached directly to the spindle. #2 states it is for power use & has a two step pulley (6" & 3") attached directly to the spindle & it also has a hand knob attached to the outer rim of the 6" pulley. #3 is a head for use in a power lathe. Heads are interchangable & use interchangable pins for the crimping, available for either a square or rounded crimp. It also utilized a spring loaded follower to press against the top wad.
Ideal handbook #37 (1950) simply shows the "Star Crimper" which is stated to replace #'s 1, 2 & 5. This one has the riser with small pulley on spindle with large pulley atop the riser with hand knob. Head is stated to be the "New" solid type with solid follower. Heads are interchangable & it was also stated they would fit "Any" Star Crimper. A late fifties Handbook, which has lost its cover so actual number unknown at this date shows the same identical set up as the 1950 one.
The #27 handbook also shows a "Diamond" crimper which appears to have the same head as the star, but lacks the straight line pushing of the shell into the crimp head. I have a 10ga crimper which though unmarked looks identical to this Diamond crimper, utlizing the pins & seperate follower.
It was also stated in this handbook that the square crimp was generally preferable unless they gave feeding problems if using a "Repeater".
The Orange one pictured here may just have the riser removed & large pulley attached directly to spindle, or it may have been offered like this at some point. I am not up on all the iterations of the Star Crimper.

I would buy a set!

CB

Pete M.

Thanks for the words of encouragement. I'll likely keep at this until the folks at Lyman Products quit answering my calls. Just kidding, but I hope something good can come of it.

Frankly, it's frustrating for some of us to see such sub-standard products (i.e. roll-crimpers, shell trimmers, etc.) being offered to the shooting public today, when many of us are old enough to remember what American ingenuity could and did turn out on a regular basis.

Within this thread alone, folks have mentioned three Lyman designs now out of production and that have no equal whatsoever among modern manufacturer's offerings. Sign of the times, I guess.

Rob

Robt,

Thanks for the heads up on the 12ga. crimpers. Lyman can put me down for 16 and 20.

I really, really need one for 32 gauge. I probably out of luck, huh?

A snipe hunter, a man after my own heart. I ordered a 12 gauge one and when it gets here I'll be able to see how it's made. I have some machine tools and perhaps it can be duplicated in other gauges. I have no idea about patents however.
nial

Nial;
Not absolutely positive, but I don't think the crimp head itself was "Improved" again after that cataloged at least as early as 1950. Should be no patent problem on that, course if you stamped "Lyman" on it there would be Copyright problems. This head has a sort of "Ratchet" type configuration in the bottom of the groove, not a real easy form to obtain without some specialized equipment.

They must have to find mine....said 3 or 4 weeks on shipping.

Hello All
ESPECIALLY SNIPE HUNTER

Take a look here

http://www.claygame.co.uk/Cat21Page13Tools.pdf

Enjoy the Fine reading, also LARGE bore stuff 8 gauge and all.

Have fun
Mike

BP carries the same thing from 8 bore to .410.
http://www.ballisticproducts.com/products.asp?dept=128

If all you want is to roll crimp then they are fine. I believe Rob and others are hoping to resurrect a very nice old product. If Lyman ever did reproduce their tools, I would gladly purchase one.

Pete

Precision Reloading's black anodized heads are better than BP's in my opinion...not sure if they are the equal of the Lyman though, as I have never used one.

Best,
Mark

Mark,

The general consensus among those of us that roll crimp would likely agree with your first statement about the PR product outperforming the BP product. And those that have had the chance to use both the PR model and the Lyman model would overwhelmingly side with the Lyman, I'm sure. The reason is the four (to as many as six) rollers in the Lyman head - depending if it is an early or late model.....in comparison to only two in the PR offering.....and a mere one roller in the BP offering. The more 'rollers' it has, the more the developing crimp is supported as it is turning over.

If you have a friend or acquaintance with a Lyman head, you might ask to borrow it for a test run as the difference is very apparent not only in the finished appearance but in how one can feel the crimp turn-in to the correct depth. Just be sure to give it back, as they are that nice!

Rob

What speed does it need to run at ?

Homeless,

My drill press is usually set at 300-400 rpm for my rust-bluing carding, which seems to work just fine for roll-crimping also. No heat build-up.

Rob

Gents,

'Last Call' for comments or to express interest in the possibility of Lyman Products once again reproducing their popular roll crimp heads. This coming Monday, I will print hard copies of all your posts and get them off with a cover letter to Lyman's Products Development Div. for their review.

Lyman will then have to decide if it warrants their tooling up for what may be a limited demand item(?). That's why I was hoping that a limited run might have potential......but that will be for them to determine. We certainly got their attention with your ordering frenzy of the remaining dozen roll-crimpers in 12 ga. recently discovered in inventory!

At any rate, 'Thanks' to those of you who did, and those who may still choose to respond - as it is appreciated. If we're lucky, the 'Cadillac' of roll-crimpers may not be totally dead yet. I will get back to you all with the outcome, just as soon as I have some news.


Sincerely,


Rob Harris
Conner, MT

I'd buy a 12, 16 & 20 head.

If they do only 12-16-20, we would still be better off than we are now. I'm still in for 10-12-16-20-28-.410, assuming price is reasonable.

I now have the 16 head and would like to purchase the 12.
George Pittelko

I'm waiting for my 12 gauge but I'd buy another in 16 if they had it. I'd also buy the hand cranked device if they would make it again.
nial

I'm "all in" for a SET (one of each) in 10/12/16/20/24/28 gauge! It would be great if they could make them all and sell them as a set for a discounted price! J. Stephens

Hello
I would like a SET also
Thanks
Mike

Rob,

I'd like one in 16, 20, 28 and .410. I was lucky and got one of the NOS 12ga ones after seeing the post on this forum.

Thank you for seeing this through.

tunes

I would buy one in 12 if they were available.

I would like a set.

I would like to get a 10, 12, and 20.

I would also like to get a 10, 12, and 20.

Thanks John

I'd buy a 10, 12, 16 and a 20 if they decide to make them again. Thanks for your efforts Mr. Harris.

I'd also buy 10-12 for sure and a full set if it comes in a package price. Would much like the hand crank version.

Regards and Thanks

'Thanks' again to all of you that took the time to respond to this query. I will get all of your posts printed up and off to Lyman later in the day.....and we'll see where it lands us. As soon as I hear something, you all will know just as much.


All Best,

Rob Harris

I would be interested too! Especially if they make the little hand crank thing again!

Dave, maybe you could cut some sort of marketing deal with Lyman and sell them through this site. Seems like a natural, given the crowd that frequents this site.

I would buy a 16 gauge head and crank.

Thanks for doing this!

I received mine today and tried it. What a great crimp they produce.

Got my Lyman 12ga roll crimper today. Anybody want to trade me for one in 16ga?

tunes

Received mine today looks good...made different than the BP roll crimper.

Thanks for the tip.

nialmac,

'Thanks' for your feedback, and I'll be sure that Lyman hears about your positive impressions of it. Also, any of you other fellas that ordered them, please feel free to let us know what you think of them after you've had a chance to use the tool. The folks at Lyman have been watching this thread, and may continue to do so for a spell.....maybe something good can come from this yet.

Rob

I will take a 12 a 16 and a 20

Regards, Gordon

If anyone would like to trade one of my new Lyman 12 ga tools for 10,16 and 20's please send email to jrlee@srv.net