Hello all. My first post here. been lurking finally decided it was time to join. Glad to be a part of this community. Anyhow, Ill try to keep this long story short. I have 2 receivers with no bbls. One is an LC Smith Field grade. The other is an Ithaca (slightly higher grade case coloring and a small amount of engraving) Im unsure of the model for the Ithaca. I believe both are 20ga. But am not positive. That is one of my questions, Help identifying it. Ill post pics later. Although if it helps right away there is an "F 20" on the receiver flats. My grandfather has had these receivers for a very long time. He was a very talented Tool and Die maker and hobby gunsmith. He acquired them for some project or repair im sure. Either way hes no longer here to ask, and hasn't been for going on 10 years now. So it became my dads problem. Id love to put a smile on my dads face and find a set of bbls to fit to one or even better both of these receivers. Any avenues/suggestions anyone of you fine folk could give me would be HUGELY appreciated. Ive been at this for a long time. I wont give up hope but it has been a lot of dead ends. Anyway, thank you for your time.
Matt.
Welcome to the forum Matt! Barrel and wood are possible, but will likely need some professional gunsmithing to fit(expensive unless you can do it yourself) You need to figure out what model Ithaca frame you have. We could tell from a picture or just the serial number.
Both E-bay and GunBroker feature parts. You'll want to find barrels that approximate the serial number of your guns for a better chance of a fit.
Whole lot easier to just buy the entire guns and hold on to your receivers as keepsakes to remember your Granddad...Geo
Geo, Thank you so much for your interest. I understand it would be easier and cheaper to go the used route but something is keeping me from doing that.(for now) Even though there are a lot of affordable Ithaca and LC doubles on the gun sites. My dad has advanced gunsmithing experience. Not a pro but I think we could very carefully get it done. The serial is 469809 on one side of the receiver flat. opposite side says F 20 Thank you again geo. So far im not ready to give up. ha ha. Ive actually not been able to find a single set of bbls. I haven't tried ebay Ive searched Gunsamerica and gunsinternational endlessly not much searching on gunbroker, but some. Ill try there again. Any other directions you can point me in are of huge value to me. Sincerely, thank you!!
Hello mattl46
Welcome to the site
Pleased to have you here,
These folks are the BEST
Mike
p.s. CALL these folks, sometimes they will surprise you
http://www.gunpartscorp.com/ContactUs.htmother parts
http://www.gunpartscorp.com/Manufacturers/LCSmith-33347/NewModelHammerless-36994.htm
Matt I assume the serial you posted is for the Ithaca, if so it would be an NID model made around 1946-47. My NID 20ga is marked like yours serial on the right and F20 on the left. My guess is that it will be a difficult search. It is easier to find LC Smith barrels, post the serial of the LC frame and any other marks, we will see if we can determine what gauge it is, later LC frame are the same on all gauges except for the standing breech and the spacing between the firing pins.
Skeet thank you so much for the direction!!! James the serial for the LC Smith is 180038 and I really appreciate your help. I assumed myself that the LC smith might be an easier find. Thank you again.
also @james We have an LCSmith ideal grade "long range" in 12ga that I compared this naked receiver to. It is noticeably smaller in size and length.
There are a lot of high serial numbered 16- and 20-gauge Ithaca NID Field Grade finished stocked receivers out there looking for barrels. Apparently Ithaca Gun Co. had a lot that they never made barrels for. Terry Turnbull had a large box of them at Creekside back in the mid-1980s for $150 apiece.
Check with Brian Dudley on the PGCA site
Just appeared, and looks to be a FW although there is no 'FW' before the SN
http://www.ebay.com/itm/LC-Smith-OldNew-...A-/361220817956
Drew, I truly appreciate your hard work and contribution, but my search is for a 20ga
Matt Your Ideal Long Range is most likely on a standard weight frame, most of the later guns were built on Feather weight frames and usually have an FW preceding the serial #. I have a 12, 16 and 20 in feather weight, I will measure the width of the standing breech and the distance between the firingpins and get back to you. Don't have a 410, 180038 was made approximately 1938.
Added info; 12ga standing b= 2.34", f/p= 1.15"
16ga " 2.17", " 1.08"
20ga " 2.02", " 1/02"
Thank-you for the excellent info James. I'll measure the suspected 20ga frame and compare to your receiver.
doctor Drew- I beg to differ. I believe, due to the schnabel forearm, these most likely are the R or std frame-possibly with the rotary joint check design. Like you and many other gents here, and elsewhere FWIW, we have spent many years studying, collecting and shooting with our favorite Lady- "Elsie"- RWTF
Only for now confused (but unimpaired) observers.
The ebay offering
Clearly has a short barrel lug. Reg frame lug on left
Without a joint check
And most certainly not a Hunter Arms Schnabel
And that's not even the correct forend wood for that field grade FW barrel set; too much checkering, and the shape of the tip is wrong.
I have a OO grade made in 1899- has the field grade schnabel splinter forearm- in my "parts for sale" bin- But Doc- you are right, I missed seeing the single sight plane solid rib, which Hunter first offered in 1939, if memory serves. If GunParts had shown more detail in their E-Bay listing, including the smaller barrel lug, of course we would also have deduced, as you already have, that this barrel set if on the FW sized receiver/frame.
Hey, I was wrong, betcha a doughtnut and a cuppa Java you have been too- You are a Christian man, so am I- tell you what- Let's remember what Our Lord & Savior said about how many times we should those who have given offense, whether by direct means, or unintentionally-7X70, correct. I have, IMO anyway, a lot of information on L.C. Smiths, as well as parts for same, that I have accumulated over many years. Selling them on this sight is about as easy as shoving a pound of melted butter into a Puma's left eardrum while both of you are locked into a pay toilet booth in Grand Central Station.
Here's what I suggest-FYC (for your consideration)- Persuade the good Doctor Jim S. to reinstate my posting privileges on the LCSCA gruppen on a 6 months probation basis- If he grants this request, after I have passed probation, I will once again become a paid up annual member, and possibly take my friend Jent Mitchell's many invites to attend some of the SC double gun events held in his sector- "The Old Dominion". And as I mentioned in my reply to the good Herr Doktor S--and now openly to you, or any other Gent that cares too- please feel free to contact Jent and ask him anything you wish to about me. You might also want to ask LCSCA member Mr. Richard W. Miller, who also lives in Virginia and knows Jent as well- he lives in Lynchburg-- and feel free to query him about what it is like to do business on Smith parts with meine Doppelganger- Herr Archibald S. Holebrooke. Danke!! Der Fuchs
Only for now confused (but unimpaired) observers.
The ebay offering
Clearly has a short barrel lug. Reg frame lug on left
Without a joint check
And most certainly not a Hunter Arms Schnabel
Looks a bit like the one on my 1932 mfg. Eagle Grade 12 gauge Live Bird gun- 32" F&F, raised Simmons pat'd Hunter Arms ventilated rib, doule triggers, ejectors, straight hand (Eng;lish) sty;e grip BUT the roller lsatch escutcheon on my Eagle Grade is rectangular in shape, believe what you have shown us here is the graceful "Banjo" shaped- Wonder if the late Eddie Peabody owned and shot an L.C. Smith gun?? RWTF
I'll have to look again. The photo I have right now (I'm not at home) does not show an FW in front of the serial but I do see something. Just can't tell what it is. I'll try and post this photo.
Suspected 20ga LC Smith frame.
Best photo I have right now. I'll measure it when home as well. Haven't had a chance.
@Jamesj my LC smith frame is indeed a FW frame. The distance (between hole centers approximately using dial calipers) between firing pins is 1.20 I'm unfamiliar with the term standing breech (I'm a bit of a doubles noob)so I couldn't make that measurement. Is there any other way to discover the gauge this frame was intended for?
I think I've figured out what the standing breech is, the vertical section of the breech where the firing pins are housed. If so I measured the width of this and it is right about 2.75 So this may be a 12ga feather weight???? If so would the barells that drew posted from ebay be a correct set? Minus fitting anyhow.
Matt, measure across the frame where the barrels butt against (standing breech) that would be equal to the width of the barrels, I am guessing you have a 12ga frame. All other measurements of FW frames are basically the same regardless of gauge. On second thought the photo of the frame you posted looks long, to be sure measure the cut out on the frame where the barrel lump extends through it should be about .70 on a FW frame, it is about 1.20 on an R frame.
Well im not sure where that cut out is. Again im a newbie. It is stamped FW on the frame ahead of the serial number. I cant find any cutouts that measure .70 I measured across the round veeticak vertical flats (where the barells butt against closed) in line with the firing pins and got about 2.70??? Im a bit confused now. Ha ha.
mattl46, over the years, I have bought a number of project guns to repair or restore, including an L.C. Smith and 2 20 ga. Ithaca Flues with blown barrels. I also have a 16 ga Baker B Grade complete action and buttstock that is very nice, and a 16 ga. Syracuse Lefever action and forearm. Both need barrels and the Baker also needs the forearm. I have walked many miles at many gun shows and shops looking for these parts, but so far have only found barrels for the 12 ga. 00 grade L.C. Smith, which took very little fitting to make a into shooter with mismatched serial numbers. Total investment for my mismatched numbers L.C. Smith shooter was $100.00 and a bunch of time.
Another recent success story was a 12 ga. Folsom Baker Batavia that was in excellent condition with very strong case colors, but was missing the forearm. I paid $100.00, which wouldn't have been a bad price for just the barrels. Then I found a correct forearm in a lot of 5 forearms on Gunbroker for $40.00. That lot also had a nice Syracuse Lefever forearm which was an added bonus.
I still hold out hope that I will find the parts to return the others to the field, but I have learned it won't be easy. In my searches, I have found a lot of other things I needed, or didn't even know I needed until I saw them. Once, I found a DSE grade Lefever action and forearm at one gun show, and I found the exact matching serial number buttstock for this gun a couple months later at another gun show about 70 miles away. I learned that the parts from this gun became separated after a gunsmith died, and I keep hoping that I will one day find the matching barrels even though I did find another set of DSE 12 ga. barrels to complete the gun... no easy feat in itself. So enjoy your parts hunting and good luck. It's all part of the same insanity that drives guys to spend years chasing down parts and spending $40,000 to restore a car that they will only realistically be able to sell for $25,000.
Keith, what an inspirational story. I wont give up. If I can determine what gauge my LC smith is in, it wont be too bad. There are several barell sets im looking at. Just dont kbow if its the righf chambering.
I have a friend who bought a fore end and iron on E-bay for a gun that was missing them. He took the gun and newly purchased
fore end to his gunsmith to fit and the gunsmith pointed out to him that the serial # on the fore end matched the gun.
What's the odds?
I seem to remember a lot of LC Smith "in the white" barrel sets on the market a few years ago...Geo
