Been away a long time. I recently examined a a friends damascus barreled BLNE and just prior to that day, shot some sporting clays with another friends Grulla SLE 12ga.

Golly gee whiz, I miss that. LOL. Nothing handles like a properly set up SxS.

Need to decide if a high condition American double or... one of the newly available Dickinson or SKB's are the way to go. I'll use the search functions to research previous discussions here. I do not want to drop a lot of money into a SxS, but I do need something that will hold up to modern, off the shelf ammo plus "sanely-priced" non-toxics.

If anyone would care to suggest something, your comments will be welcome.

Regards to all, John Jankowski

Welcome back, John. Been awhile.

I'd recommend a 30" barreled BSS, or a Miroku made SKB, etc. Reasonably priced guns, easy to shoot, nearly bulletproof, and will do everything you said you want. But, they are single trigger guns. They can be had for $1400 and under. I've used a BSS for S X S clays events and ducks for a long time.

All my best, SRH

ditto, re bss...

Welcome back. The problem with properly set up SxS it that it is only suitable for upland gunning. It is niche type gun for uplands and as large caliber stopping rifle for stopping dangerous game. I would suggest properly set up 0/U like Winchester 6500 2&3/4" only field gun or light weight Beretta like Blackwing, Whitewing or Ultralight. Why O/U? Well firing bottom barrel first makes for more pleasant recoil impulse, single sighting plane making shots on rising birds or targets easier. The ones I mentioned come with choke tubes meaning they are steel shot compatible. The cheapest "soft" non-tox is newly released Kent Bismuth at about $18 per 10 pack of 2&3/4" 12s. The 20ga & 16ga are about $2 per box less. This is twice as much as 25 pack of "upland or target-type" steel loads.

think all you really need is a booster shot....and you will forget all about these money pits....

Jager, I believe he said he wanted to get back into doubles - don't think he worried about being a niche gun. Actually I don't look at them as niche guns, but guns with the barrels in the proper position - horizontal, like your eyes. Never could understand how anyone could shoot one of those guns with the barrels vertical.
I shoot Remingtons, Ithacas, Parkers, and Lefevers and because I reload don't worry about non toxic shot because there's the proper wad between the barrel and shot. The BBS and SKB would be good bets for modern guns.

I remember when you shot primarily sxs, including 2" guns.

Too bad he does not live in Germany Waffen Frankonia has promo sale. One of the offerings is Merkel Bros. 40E 28" straight grip double triggers for kool €2879. Good gun for the money.

Good suggestions . . . although SKB made their own guns in Japan (until the recent appearance of Turkish-made SKB's). Miroku, in addition to making the BSS, also made sxs under the Charles Daly name. And quite a few of the Miroku-made Dalys do have double triggers, if that's what you prefer.

German guns are also worth considering. The more basic older guns made by Sauer (either E or W German) or Simson, or Merkel--not so old that they have short chambers, and not the newest Merkels to keep your investment down--are all good bets. And, like the Japanese guns, there are a lot of them on the used market. From Italy, the older Berettas and V. Bernardellis are also worth a look.

Plenty of options out there. Enjoy the hunt!

How about a V Bernardelli (spelling?)..their sideplated boxlocks look rather nice, I think they are a series called Roma #1,#2,#3, #4 etc.Going up in engraving n wood as the numbers increas..to one (#6?)that has false pins n looks real Sidelocky,lol
Also they had some regular looking Boxlocks.
I have heard good things about them.
My first Hammer gun was the middle grade Italia , or perhaps the Brescia forget the name, but I thought it a great gun,modern enough to shoot factory loads.
But after getting the hammer gun bug, I sold it to help buy a nice ww Greener steel bbl hammer...but it was a great gun all the same...
Just to mention another name
good luck with your search
cheers
Franc
oops Larry beat me to it...but check them out, don't see very many for sale though.

Anything that costs more than a high condition Stevens Model 311 is all about collecting and resale value. $300 is as much as I would pay for a gun to harvest game. Everything else is tradition and resale value. You have lost the "feel".

If you are on a budget, its hard to beat a Miroku made Charles Daly with double triggers. Has the feel of a nice game gun, but not the price.

Let us not forget the "gold standard" of game guns for the working masses. It is the Birmingham mass-produced Webley & Scott 700 series.

Check out one of the CZ models John, enjoy, and don't look back. I believe they can practically all be had in either 12 or 20 for under $800 or $900. Welcome back to the board!

I've been pleased with my 12 gauge Dickinson SxS (Cabela's). Choke tubes provide flexibility for different clay games, as well as hunting.

gold40

Eightbore,
I don't get your post about a $300 Gun ,or who has lost their "Feel"...could you explain a bit ?
cheers
franc

OK, when I stated a return, is was to SxS's. And yes, I have been out of the loop on SxS's for a good while.

I currently own a 1965 Browning Superposed Lightning in 20ga, 26" IC/Mod and for clays, I shoot a Kolar 32" Sporting model. So I am still shooting 2 barreled guns, just set up "8" and not "oo". LOL

Yeah, I used a 2" 12 for grouse hunting for 2 seasons. An Alex Martin that weighed a scant under 5 pounds. That was over 15 years ago.

Prices seem pretty decent for working guns. What I have to decide is which one. And I will mention that my choice must have double triggers.

Thanks very much for the suggestions.

To me Personally if it doesn't have two barrels SxS it just not really worth owning. My personal preference, Current or Past Fads notwithstanding is 28" barrels. I am only about 5' 8½" & a "Standard" 14" pull fits me just fine. I feel a Double Gun with a barrel length of approximately twice the pull length has good proportions & have no problem shooting a barrel of that length. To me either long barrels with short stocks or short barrels with long stocks just look out of proportion.
Certainly can't agree with 8 bore on the Stevens 311. Although some of the guns I hunt with cost less than $300.00 way back when I bought them they were a good bit higher than a 311 at that same time frame.

I'm not sure where you would get a "high condition American double" that also fit your parameters of not dropping a lot of money, and use of non toxic shot. The only ones I can think of are the Ithaca Nitros, or NIDs, and the price on the NIDs are sneaking up there. Either gun would likely require choke work to function best with steel.

The Japanese boxlock guns don't turn up with double triggers that often. Considering the double trigger requirement, in addition to the low cost and steel shot capable thingy, I might suggest a Teutonic boxlock that you could open the chokes on. There are many 12s out there, Sauers and whatnot from the 1940-1970s, in need of love, that would fit the bill.
I'd go non-ejector and double trigger for simplicity, and consider guns with a cheekpiece if money is real tight-never seen a contest between a rasp and a cheekpiece where the cheekpiece won.

Good Luck.

Best,
Ted

For what you're going to spend on a new Dickinson or SKB--over $1K for the former, pushing $2K for the latter--you can get a pretty darned nice (in terms of condition, and assuming 12ga) classic American or German double. Yes, likely choke opening required if you're thinking both sporting clays and hunting, with waterfowling thrown into the mix. But that will only add around $100. I'd go with whatever catches my fancy and fits me in terms of stock dimensions--especially drop, although changes in LOP won't cost a bunch either. And some might prefer adding a pad in any case.

I'd also point out that the SKB's, whether current Turkish or previous Japanese, are single trigger only--unless you find one of the quite rare DT Royals.

Everyone over looks Remington doubles. They can still be bought at a decent price. And, they're like a Ithaca, simple inside and easy to repair if necessary. JMHO, but I'd rather buy a old American double.

Paul, Shhhh!

The model of 1894 is among the best sxs to bear US makers name. The problem is what I see locally is well past best if used by date and the prices of ones in good shape on line make them more expensive than same quality or better quality guns from Birmingham, St. Etienne and Thuringen.

John, here's one for you to check out: A very unusual double trigger SKB. Go to Guns International, #100785883. I've never seen one like that. It's the SKB that appears in my 1961 Shooters Bible (several years before Ithaca started importing SKB's). $450 with ejectors. Back then, $450 would have bought you a Bernardelli Holland sidelock, or a Franchi Condor sidelock. If I were looking for a relatively modern 12ga with DT's but one that's a cut above most others, and for about the same money as a new SKB from Turkey, I'd take a hard look at that one.