Re-forge Shotgun Tube into Pistol Tube - 07/28/17 03:21 PM
Below are a couple videos in which I cover my work to re-forge an old shotgun barrel tube forging into a tube for a pistol barrel. There was a question on this forum, asking where all the old damascus pistol barrels came from. I theorize that small bore damascus pistol barrels could be made by re-forging short sections of large bore barrels, which were originally created for use in shotguns.
The barrel tube that I re-forged, was given to me by Peter Dyson. I believe it to have been intended to finish out into a 20 gauge barrel. The tube was in the as forged state, just as it came from the barrel smith’s shop. This tube I estimate, to be approximately 100 years old.
Shortly after the question about the origin of damascus pistol barrels was posed on this forum, I stopped at Peter Dyson’s table at the Antique Arms Show to visit with him. Peter mentioned that people keep wanting to buy his tubes to make pistol barrels, but the bores were too large for that use. I told Peter about my theory of re-forging shotgun tubes. Peter handed me a section of barrel tube and said; “So go forge me a pistol barrel.”
The work to re-forge this barrel tube went quite well. I returned the tube to Peter and he was amazed that I could accomplish it. He wanted to ship me a crate of barrels to re-forge for him. I told Peter that he should be able to find blacksmiths in his area who could do this work for him.
It was my intention to forge this tube smaller in diameter than I did in this video. I believe the tube I re-forged could now be finished out into a .50 caliber barrel; maybe .45 caliber. I stopped work on it, because I had already had two of the original welds between the riband turns break. I successfully rewelded these breaks, but was reluctant to continue forging and risk wrecking Peter’s barrel. As it turned out, this tube was very odd. It was made up of ribands of two different damascus patterns. The scarf weld between the ends of the two ribands was very sloppy. If I was working with a sound tube section which also belonged to me, I would have had no hesitation to continue forging further.
My longer version of this video, includes the entire forging process and an overview of the tools which I used. This video, I shared with Peter so that he can provide it to any prospective blacksmiths who may be able to do the work for him.
The longer video also includes my rather lengthy commentary on the construction of antique damascus gun barrels. I comment on the differences (as I understand them) between British barrel making and Belgian methods. I also share my views on the purpose of using a chemise and what benefit could be had from it. Additionally, I share my expertise to dispel some of the incorrect assumptions which have been offered concerning the purpose of the chemise.
As we understand, the old damascus gun barrels, were welded up of wrought iron and low carbon steel. I made my damascus gun barrels out of modern steels. My barrels were difficult to weld and the steel was very hard under the hammer and a challenge to shape. I always expected that the old barrels smiths were working with a damascus material that was much easier to weld and forge. I found this to be very true, as the old tube of wrought iron and low carbon steel was almost frighteningly soft under the hammer. Twice, I had forge welds break while re-forging the old tube. Both times, I fluxed the break and easily rewelded the tube back together.
Although I feel that I definitely proved my theory that shotgun barrels can be forged smaller to create pistol barrels, I understand that this is not definitive proof that such was done historically. Unless documents can be found describing the making of pistol barrels which were written contemporary to damascus barrels being made, my theory is just conjecture. Though, it is definitely food for thought.
This was an amazing experience! How many people get to forge on 100 year old damascus?!
The shorter video is simply a condensed version of the longer one. It provides just an explanation of my theory and enough of the forging work to demonstrate how I went about it.
Long version:
Short version:
The barrel tube that I re-forged, was given to me by Peter Dyson. I believe it to have been intended to finish out into a 20 gauge barrel. The tube was in the as forged state, just as it came from the barrel smith’s shop. This tube I estimate, to be approximately 100 years old.
Shortly after the question about the origin of damascus pistol barrels was posed on this forum, I stopped at Peter Dyson’s table at the Antique Arms Show to visit with him. Peter mentioned that people keep wanting to buy his tubes to make pistol barrels, but the bores were too large for that use. I told Peter about my theory of re-forging shotgun tubes. Peter handed me a section of barrel tube and said; “So go forge me a pistol barrel.”
The work to re-forge this barrel tube went quite well. I returned the tube to Peter and he was amazed that I could accomplish it. He wanted to ship me a crate of barrels to re-forge for him. I told Peter that he should be able to find blacksmiths in his area who could do this work for him.
It was my intention to forge this tube smaller in diameter than I did in this video. I believe the tube I re-forged could now be finished out into a .50 caliber barrel; maybe .45 caliber. I stopped work on it, because I had already had two of the original welds between the riband turns break. I successfully rewelded these breaks, but was reluctant to continue forging and risk wrecking Peter’s barrel. As it turned out, this tube was very odd. It was made up of ribands of two different damascus patterns. The scarf weld between the ends of the two ribands was very sloppy. If I was working with a sound tube section which also belonged to me, I would have had no hesitation to continue forging further.
My longer version of this video, includes the entire forging process and an overview of the tools which I used. This video, I shared with Peter so that he can provide it to any prospective blacksmiths who may be able to do the work for him.
The longer video also includes my rather lengthy commentary on the construction of antique damascus gun barrels. I comment on the differences (as I understand them) between British barrel making and Belgian methods. I also share my views on the purpose of using a chemise and what benefit could be had from it. Additionally, I share my expertise to dispel some of the incorrect assumptions which have been offered concerning the purpose of the chemise.
As we understand, the old damascus gun barrels, were welded up of wrought iron and low carbon steel. I made my damascus gun barrels out of modern steels. My barrels were difficult to weld and the steel was very hard under the hammer and a challenge to shape. I always expected that the old barrels smiths were working with a damascus material that was much easier to weld and forge. I found this to be very true, as the old tube of wrought iron and low carbon steel was almost frighteningly soft under the hammer. Twice, I had forge welds break while re-forging the old tube. Both times, I fluxed the break and easily rewelded the tube back together.
Although I feel that I definitely proved my theory that shotgun barrels can be forged smaller to create pistol barrels, I understand that this is not definitive proof that such was done historically. Unless documents can be found describing the making of pistol barrels which were written contemporary to damascus barrels being made, my theory is just conjecture. Though, it is definitely food for thought.
This was an amazing experience! How many people get to forge on 100 year old damascus?!
The shorter video is simply a condensed version of the longer one. It provides just an explanation of my theory and enough of the forging work to demonstrate how I went about it.
Long version:
Short version: