For those that have shot both,

Are there any discernible differences in handling between Miroku and Browning shotguns of similar class?

think of the miroku as a light, well balanced field gun...carried a lot...shot a little...if shot a lot, it will beat you up...

think of the browning as a heavy target gun...carried a little...shot a lot...if shot a lot, you will not be sore at the end of the day...

the browning is almost indestructible...the miroku, not so much...

I had two 12ga BSS and nice Charles Daly 20ga O/U by B.C. Miroku. The Browning version of O/U with light receiver called I think Feather is a lot lighter than 20ga 3" Charles Daly. The Montgomery Ward extractor version of BSS had thinner barrels and did weigh a little less. Charles Daly B.C. Miroku O/Us were nicer guns. For example, they had Trap or Skeet version that had mechanism actuated by sliding button on side of receiver allowing inactivation of ejector system which Brownings never came equipped with.

I have MK38 Miroku & used to have 425 Browning. Barrels would interchange. MK had no porting. MKS quite different from Dalys, which I have owned also. Also MK was fixed chokes.

I have MK38 Miroku & used to have 425 Browning. Barrels would interchange. MK had no porting. MKS quite different from Dalys, which I have owned also

I am trying to discern handling differences between Browning Citori 30" 20 ga and Miroku MK60 20ga 30" Primary difference I think is fixed vs changeable chokes

I don't know if actions are lighter or barrels struck thinner, stocks slightly different etc.

I think their MOI should be similar.

I think that is exactly right. Barrels make the difference & MK60 has no porting!

I am comparing them to the "Rizzini style" 30" 20ga O/U, trying to find a balanced, yet dynamic pair for driven red grouse and Sept partridges

I can't find Miroku Mk60 in US so am extrapolating from Citori.

Greg,
Barrels chambered for 3" shells will be considerably heavier than those chambered for 2 3/4" ones.
Karl

CZ, sorry to say I don't have any close enough comparables to help you. Frustrating when I have the tools, but lack the data. My data tells you exactly what you ask, but I just don't have the right guns.

DDA

I have a Miroku MK70 in 28 ga w/30" barrels and I love it. Fixed chokes and no ports. I also have a Citori Feather XS Sporting in .410 with 30" barrels, fixed chokes and no porting. Liked it so much that I went looking for the same gun in 28 ga, could not find it but did find that MK70. I think I prefer the balance of the Feather XS with the aluminum frame vs the steel frame on the MK70, but hard to tell for sure because of the difference in gauge and barrel weight. The Feather XS (in the U.S. at least) came unported in .410 and 28, but only with ports in 20 and 12, and I hate ports. So, in a 20 ga I'd go with the Miroku over the Browning. But my 20 ga 30" is a Beretta 687 SP-II, and that would have to be my first choice in a 20ga/30". My 12ga 30" is an old Miroku, and I also have an old Citori Field in 12/28". The Citori is solid and a bit heavy, but has 3" chambers. The Miroku is prettier and better finished, seems a bit livlier, but has 2-3/4" chambers. It's a crap shoot.

I recently missed out on this Daly Miroku by a $5 bid.


I found this 30" BSS for only 50% more.


Both have 30" tubes but I think I'd have preferred the DT's, 1/2 pound lighter and the extra money in my pocket.

I don't know, that BSS has some pretty wood on it!

I had a Miroku 12ga, straight/splinter/DT. Simply marked Miroku Model M. Looked like a very basic Birmingham boxlock . . . and handled like one. While nearly all the Miroku Dalys I've seen were heavier than that, compared to my Miroku, an equivalent BSS 12ga felt like it needed a set of wheels.

It does appear to be one of the few grade 1's that hasn't been cut from a phone pole

I own a BSS, a Daly, and Montgomery Wards Miroku made side by sides.

You want the BSS. It's heavier, but the quality of the workmanship and materials improve on what's already an excellent shotgun.

It's the difference between a Cadillac, Buick, and Chevrolet. They all work, are all nice cars, but you want the Cadillac.

Yeah, that's about right. The monkey ward Western Field is definitely the chevy...Geo

BSS with 30" barrels must be uncommon. I have held one many years ago in gun shop on Central Ave in Albany that no longer exists. The one shown above has about the best butt wood I have sine on standard grade BLE BSS.

And holding one is about as close as you will ever get Jagermeister. Why don't you tell us all about them even though all you did was held one and drooled on the counter?

You still don't own any doubles at all, do you? Do you feel that makes you an expert? Are you worried that your family will sell your precious collection of toy stuffed animals at wholesale when you croak? Or will they just toss them in the garbage can along with the computer keyboard that you wore out posting about guns you never owned?

No problemo Dziadu, have you ever heard of Toys for Tots?

What is a dziadu oh great tire kicker and gun shop drooler? Is it something like a kishka? It sounds like some Polish word that a pathetic internet fake who doesn't own even one lousy double might use out of envy and frustration.

I think Jager is actually the world famous Polka King and ponzi scam artist, Jan Lewan.

Mr. Clapper Zapper, I will get back to the initial question, and away from the bickering in between.
Were you referring to O/U or SxS models.....?

I have experience with both offerings in both configurations. There have been many new and ongoing changes in the O/U models of Miroku guns primarily aimed at the UK GAME shooting market.....If indeed you are interested in the the O/U's I can probably shed some light on this subject.
I have put a couple of thousand shots at Gamebirds through some of the newer MK 60 offerings, both 12 and 20 bores, single guns and matched pairs, both at home and abroad.
If I can help , let me know.
Best,
Paul

Thank-you, Paul

I think I may have my answer.

My desire is a matched pair for shooting the smaller UK driven birds. ie. Partridge and Red grouse.

I looked into the Citori 20ga, 3", 30" barrels at Cabela's, Dundee, yesterday. They were near 8lbs. Based on near every dimension being the same, I have concluded there cannot be much difference between the Citori and Mk60. Even if more lightly struck, with an ABW pistol grip stock, and 30" barrels, they'll be quite stout.

They (The Citori's I handled) were not dynamic enough for driven Red grouse.

By extrapolation, and catalog reading, The Miroku "High Pheasant" Mk60 pairs, while lovely, would be too heavy for Red grouse, for me. Not dynamic enough. But will be perfect for High pheasant.
(longer shots, heavier charges, etc.) but I believe my shooting style is too deliberate to use them for Red grouse.

I am now leaning toward either an AyA 4/53 set, at around 6.25 lbs, or a Rizzini style O/U at around 6.5 lbs. for the small birds.

I shoot the model 4's very well, and while plain, I cannot complain about how well they have worked for me.

I really don't wish to be bothered with the anxieties and endless repair of vintage guns when on a shooting holiday.

What do you think?

I think you should look into the new Galazan 20 g. O/U offering for around 2K. It is offered in 30"and is light and quite dynamic. I believe it might be the same as the Rizzini gun.

We have similar ideas regarding game guns for similar purposes... ....The weight of my chosen guns are a good bit different than those you mentioned.
I sent along a PM

An AyA 4/53 Excellent choice!!! Sounds like a great trip.

CZ and I were able to catch up with each other and I was able to give him some first hand information ( personal experience) on the newer Miroku GAME shooting models.
The Fixed choke, well struck barrels on the MK 60 guns have nothing in common, with the Choke tubed Inv. Plus guns Browning offers stateside, except action design....

Well designed and finished tools they are....