I've recently come into a small lot of long guns and besides a few nice Winchester model 97's and model 12's i got two Swedish 16 gauge SxS's. Not sure of the exact vintage but one has damacus barrels and the other has steel. Both have exposed hammers adn are in very good + contition with excellent bores.

The damascus one has 2 1/2" chambers. The steel barreled one has 2 3/4" chambers. Obviously i can't shoot modern anything in the damascus barreled one but is there an alternative? Also what about ammo for the steel barreled one?

I'm only going to keep one of them and wondering about which one would be a shooter...

Question is too non specific to answer intelligently. What are the two guns, their conditions and proof marks? First learn this then ask the question.

Not all steel barreled guns were Nitro proofed...especially when there are no barrel flats...often when the barrels are round where they mate to the receiver, the gun was not nitro proofed, even though fluid steel barrels are present...the only Swiss maker that I can think of is Husqvarna (I've not seen a Carl Gustov SxS)...I don't think any of the Husky's with Lefacheaux lock-ups were nitro proofed...the best thing is to post a pic of the proof marks, and these guys will amaze you with their understanding of proofs and acceptable pressures...From those marks, I and others, will probably be able to tell you the name of the final assembler of your particular gun, if in fact it's a Husky

Swiss is NOT Swedish. Husqvarna is a Swedish company.

Underlever hammer doubles could be Husqvarna, or one of many Belgium makers.

Not sure when the Husqvarna underlever hammer guns were first nitro proofed, but in the late 1890s or shortly after 1900 is what I remember. None of mine, including up to WW2 have proof marks, which is SOP. Proofing was to what today is essentially CIP standard. Very few, if any, of the underlever hammer guns had 70 mm chambers, ditto for the top lever hammer guns from before WW2. 65 mm chambers, NOT 2,5 inches, was the standard in Sweden.

I stick to reloads with listed chamber pressures of about 10.000 psi or less for the fluid steel barreled Husqvarnas. FYI, Remington black game load 16 gauge ammo has 67 mm hulls (even though marked as 70 mm) and can safely be used in 65 mm chambers, per CIP regulations. Fiocchi 16 gauge 1,0 oz loads I have bought also have 67 mm hulls. I also cut Federal and Winchester 70 hulls down to 65 mm and use hartin crimps.

Niklas

NiklasP,
I am sure you did not mean anything by it but that first paragraph came out a little hurtful. It may be a little late to edit it but sometimes written words come out different than the way it sounded in our heads.

Best,
Milt

It is done Milt.

Thanks,
Niklas

Thanks for the info guys.....i was just looing for a general answer as of now. I was curious if you have to shoot black powder in all damascus barrels...which i think you do. As soon as i can get a camera going i'll get some pics of the proof marks.

Jason

Jason,

Like nearly everyone here on this board, I stick to chamber pressures for which the guns were proofed. So far as I know, Husqvarna never proofed Damascus barreled for anything other than black powder. Ditto for their very earliest fluid steel barrels. So, I would definately stick to BP or nitro loads giving BP chamber pressures for the Damascus-barreled gun. It is easy to find such low pressure nitro loads for 12 gauge but there are not many for 16 gauge. Perhaps someone else from the 16 gauge loading group can speak directly to such 16 gauge nitro loads -- all my guns have the CIP equivalent proofs.

Niklas

Lahti1935A,

Let me complicate your life a bit more.

Merely knowing the chamber length and steel type does not give any indication as to the service load. Certainly proof marks give us a starting point. The condition of the gun also plays a factor. In regard to Husqvarna in particular, a short example. Some time ago I purchased a Husqvarna M51 12ga. It was in great shape. I even had it recase colored and reblued. According to the serial number, it was produced circa 1943. Well, I had a special project in mind. So I started looking for a second set of barrels for this gun. I found a donor gun, again a M51 12ga. The serial number corresponded to circa 1946. A 3 year gap, I felt lucky. Until I tried to exchange the barrels. The later gun was not the same at all. They had "beefed up" the frame and the barrels in those 3 years. There is no way to fit the later barrels on the earlier gun. The proof marks were exactly the same by the way.

Another personal story. I found an early pre-Fox in terrible condition. Just the thing for a complete restoration. Sent it to a gunsmith I trust. After he disassembled the gun, he found a crack in the interior of the frame. It has since been welded.

A gun really should be given a good inspection by a gunsmith who knows these guns and can take the proper measurements. Not only chamber length and bore diameter. But also the wall thickness of the entire length of both barrels. If a thin spot is found it should be marked and the thickness noted. Having a thin spot 3 inches from the muzzle is very different than having it just beyond the forearm. One is most likely shootable, the other is cause for concern.

You are asking the right questions. Continue to ask. We are all still learning.

Pete

Second what PeteM wrote. I greatly enjoy shooting my Husqvarna hammer doubles. Each got the kind of carefull examination that Pete describes and passed. Many others did not pass. I buy guns to shoot and I shoot them a lot. With proper loads they last and perform very well.

To put a different slant on it. Many of those old hammer doubles from Sweden were pretty well "used up" before they came to USA. BEWARE!! Others got little use and were well taken care of. Congrats if you have two of the latter.

Niklas

Per loads for short chambered damascus barrels. The key is to use loads that produce low pressure. There are plenty of loads that can be assembled in 2 3/4" hulls and have nitro powder. The trick here is a good understand of loading tables and a willingness to stick to them. Note that BP loads are not necessarily cream puffs. If the gun can established safe to shoot, there will be a low pressure 2 3/4" reload or special purchase load suitable. The steel barrels are not necessarily stronger than the damascus - all older guns should be checked by a gunsmith who knows doubles. The concept that steel barrels make a gun OK to shoot is not in keeping with what is well known about their metalurgy.

Current condition of the barrels is just as important as their original quality.

I have a 51 here in the shop now, hope to be shooting it in about a week or so. Barrels are fit on the action and will be put on face tomorrow. Have to make the quarter rib and packing pieces. The outside was very rough but surprisingly the action was good on the inside. I believe it will be a very nice shooter.

Sadly these were givin' the thumbs down by my local gunsmith for shooting. I've taken numerous antique guns to him over the last 15 years and he's never let me down. Man i'm bummed but i like my hands and face so i'll move on.

I still really like these so i'll have to see if i can't find another that checks out ok.

I do appreciate all the information you all contributed! Thanks!

What was the reason he gave you the thumbs down? Did he measure barrels wall thickness, or find some fault you had not noticed before?

Lahti1935A,

Good for you. I am sorry they are not shooters, but you did a really good thing. If you are looking for Husqvarna's in particular there are several sources. Joe Salter usually has some rolling blocks. Ken at Kebco is always a good source, you have to call him.

Pete

Post deleted by Rd Show

Thanks fellas! I'll find another one in a few weeks or so. I was looking at a bunch at Simpsons Ltd tonight but thier prices seem on the high side, mostly around $400 for ok ones. I'll keep looking.

Jason