I'd like to try my hand at making a trapdoor buttplate like this one

















I've got stock, and one of those Brownell's copies of a Model 70 style buttplate,
but I don't have a good idea of a latching mechanism, I'd appreciate any suggestions.

Doc, the pictured door looks like it came from a US military rifle of some sort; Krag, 1903 or 1917. The original hinge boss can be attached to the inside of the buttplate by welding or silver-solder, and the spring-loaded closure can be obtained by either an adaptation of the original GI leaf spring or else a coil spring in a blind hole with steel cap to bear against the hinge. The inside butt of the hinge has a right-angle heel to hold it securely in both the closed as well as the open position. Taper the door seat to obtain a flush fit like the original GI one. A really nice touch would be to actually checker the door to match the plate but it would be difficult to say the least.

I've obtained some blank oval door castings (doors only) sized for the old Albright trap butts, checkered but not drilled for the hinge yet. If you'd care to try one of them, I'd be happy to gift you if you'll pay the postage. It's about 2" long by 3/4" wide, approximately the same size as the old Mann-Scho doors but not curved quite as much. The opening is just right for the slide of a Lyman 48....
Regards, Joe

Joe if you could spare another one/ It would be deeply appreciated. Whitey

Thanks Joe, that is a very generous offer, I will gladly take you up on that. I will send you a pm.

Fred

Whitey, I have your snail addy so yours will be on the way tomorrow. Doc, yours will be awaiting your addy info and good luck with your efforts. I really like these trap door items and will be glad to help anyone in any way I can, I have several more of these doors.
Regards, Joe

Thank you Joe. Whitey

It would be great if someone could offer modified M70 buttplates with traps in them. The pre64 buttplate, IMO, is about as popular on custom rifles as the Niedner and of course there are hundreds of thousands of Winchesters, not just 70s, that use this buttplate. I for one would cheerfully chop a big hole into the butt of a stock 70 to have a place to hide a sight slide. And when the time comes to sell the rifle, just put a regular plate back on it and pass off the hole, if ever found, as a lightening cut.

Joe,

I'm putting together parts for a Rem M30 custom in .35 Whelen and have been mulling over what to do with the Lyman 48 Slide. If you can spare one more oval door casting?


thanks,

Rob

I'll check this AM, Rob, I'm pretty sure I have several more. Regards, Joe

Hi Joe,

I hope that you got my PM's, thank you for your suggestions on
the latch mechanisms. I am looking forward to playing around.
I've been accumulating, buttplates and stocks and actions, and
now I have some time to work on things. I agree that that round trapdoor
would look better checkered, but if the checkering pattern didn't have the
right spacing and wasn't aligned with the pattern on the buttplate it might
not look so good. I think that while the piece of round stock is in the lathe,
I might try and cut a border around the edge. That circular expanse might
not be a bad place for initials to be engraved

Fred

PMs received and doors will go out today to Doc, Whitey and Rob. Anyone else? Good luck and keep us posted on progress!
Regards, Joe

Sorry, this is as big as I can make the picture, not a trap door..

Roger Biesen still makes a pretty nice one if you don't want to make your own.

I think.?? the main problem is finding trapdoor buttplates to fit factory stocks like the M-70 etc. Or someone to modify your own buttplate. ??. If building a new stock even if expensive they are available. Am I right.???

I've been accumulating material over the last couple of years,
stocks and actions and buttplates, I've finally started working on things in the last year. Maybe two years ago, I won an auction for 5 Model 70 buttplates on ebay. I've got three of them inletted onto stocks now. Sold one and have plans for the other. But one thing I've noticed is that they don't interchange without tiny gaps here and there. I think they were cast and then the casting marks were buffed and polished off and there was enough differences to make them not interchange well. So unless you are starting from scratch or are willing to reinlet a new buttplate and then maybe refinish a portion of the buttstock, the best thing would be to modify the existing buttplate. If I can get this to work, I will take good notes on what I did and share them with everyone that is interested.

Also, I think, and hope to know this for a fact next week or so,
that if you made a circular trapdoor but put an oblong recess in
the stock, that you could angle a Lyman 48 slide through the circular hole in the buttplate and up into the oblong recess.

Thanks Fred. As I am going to do the buttplate you let me have and the door Joe is sending us.To fit my Westley Richards take down project.As the plate it self fits perfect. Whitey

Well, there is a baggo steel Winchester buttplates out there already on nice guns. Someone could start a nice cottage industry installing traps on existing rifles.

Eighbore. I was thinking if there was enought interest. I would ask my friend (the sight blank maker) if he would be interested in helping everone out. Whitey

A source of round trap doors dould be U.S. military buttplates, Krag and 1903. One is bigger, I don't know which as I don't have an issue 1903 to compare to my Krags.

Whitey, one of the first things he'd want to make would be a properly-sized tapered reamer for the circular door seat. I believe it would be simpler by far for him to do a circular door rather than the elongated one, and a suitably-larger stock recess that 'turns the corner' would allow a place for the Lyman 48 slide, as already mentioned.

The main problem with this approach is the acquisition of enough milsurp circular doors, the milled buttplates are now bringing astronomical prices. He'd probably end up having to make his own doors.

Considering that a newly-made trap-door buttplate costs at least $150-200 and frequently more and almost certainly wouldn't fit the original stock anyway, I'll bet that he could charge a very pretty penny for a nice conversion of any existing M70 plate.

I can send you a milled milsurp buttplate with circular door for examination/conversion/destruction if you wish, just say the word.
Regards, Joe

Both of what I have is less than 1 inch. I would think a little bigger or maybe a oblong shape would work better.?? Whitey

Less than 1 inch is fine, the normal milsurp is about 3/4" or a little more and the oblong commercial doors are a little LESS than 3/4" wide. I judge this by, among other things, the facts that a US military oiler will not quite fit through the commercial door and my 3/4" spur drill makes a hole that's slightly larger than the oblong commercial opening.
Regards, Joe

Thanks Joe. Just the old mind working on my end.And not knowing what I am talking about. Whitey

for comparison: Albright, M70, M1917 (I believe) and a Lyman 48S with newly-made dummy slide. The milsurp circular hole measures ~0.860" ID and the 48's slide will easily fit through and turn the corner. The doors I sent you guys are the unmachined castings of the Albright door, and its hole is sized perfectly for the 48's slide at slightly under 3/4".


A circular door with monogram space prepped (but left vacant) would seem to be ideal for this sort of thing! Easily fit (well, relatively easily) and fabbed, no worries about matching the checkering, easily embellished with various concentricities on the lathe, and a ready-made space for custom logos or monograms. Michael's pics give a very good idea of some simple embellishments that can easily be done by even a relative novice, while a good engraver could turn this small space into a real work of art for a relatively modest price.

'Modest price' and 'easily fit & fabbed' are VERY important considerations for me....
Regards, Joe

Joe thanks again.Pictures and words help old senile minds. SMile Whitey

Well, here are the results of yesterday's machining, I haven't used a milling machine in 14 years, it was like seeing an old friend again. And it was the first time, I used one with a digital read out, best thing since sliced bread. Right now, I am just playing around, my idea is to first make a trapdoor for a piece of sheet steel or aluminum and then go to work for real on a buttplate. The picture shows (from left to right) my machining efforts, the trapdoor Joe was kind enough to send me, a Brownell's Model 70 style buttplate and an unknown Niedner style buttplate that my Dad found at an estate sale. The buttplate looks a lot bigger than the Model 70 buttplate because it is still attached to a portion of the buttstock. Anyone recognize this buttplate?




Dear Joe, Thanks so much for the trapdoor, is there any chance that you could turn some of those buttplates in your previous post and post a picture of the back sides. Though feel free to tell me that it would help me to develop my intellect and character by figuring out my own hinging and latching mechanisms.

Doc, here you are. You can see that the milsurp hinge pin boss is entirely too large and clunky while the Albright pin boss is little more than a grooved bulge with the hinge pin held in the groove by the spring tension.(spring swung aside for clarity)


Your nondescript buttplate in question is one that Herter's sold back in the day. Don't know who made it but Herter's was at least one outlet for it. It's on a par with the Niedners, i.e. slightly thinner than the Wins.

BTW you guys, please don't send me any money for postage, just pay the favor forward to some other aspiring smith down the road sometime. That's what I'm doing right now (and you're helping me), I'm paying forward some of the past favors from others that it's now too late to pay back to them in person.
Regards, Joe

Joe thanks again. And for those of you who might not know him.Joe has been paying forward ever since I have known him. He will help anyone with Knowledge or help of any kind.And that even includes people who IMO are "Jerks" And I will not mention names from a former site. Just to protect the GUILTY. FWIWTMO. Whitey

Joe,

Got, mine today, thank you. Will pay it forward for you as soon as the opportunity presents itself. Whitey speaks the truth above.

Thanks Joe, I will try to live up to the examples that you and Whitey set. I hope to make more progress on the buttplates later this week.

How are those butt plates turning out?

I hit a glitch in that project and moved on to other things,
but thanks for the reminder, some things have changed between then and now and I hope to get back and work on these this summer.

I done mine on the model 70 butt plate that Fred sent me and used the door that Joe sent me.And it turned out great. I sent it to Joe for his opion. He Loved it and said he was building a special rifle for himself and it would look great. Smile of course It was his.Maybe some day I will do another for myself. But at the present time not planning on it. smile Whitey