$11,000 plus 15% plus 3% plus shipping. Ouch. Who was it?

Where? Link?

http://www.proxibid.com/asp/LotDetail.asp?ahid=3161&aid=43175&lid=11542570

Very nice.

The wood selection is pretty remarkable - I don't think I've ever seen wood like that chosen for a rifle of Wundhammer's era - that must have been the best stock blank in the country at the time.

Is it that perfect or has it been gone over? Engraved at the factory?

I guess it was made for Stewart "Howard" White (Edward??) The story is very disorganized. And by Howe do they mean G&H Howe?

I was very relieved to see the selling price after the bad cataloging of the rifle.

It's a factory stocked & engraved Savage made for Stewart Edward White that was in the Wundhammer shop at the time of Wundhammer's death.

IMO one of the better deals yesterday.

If you were the high bidder on this what would be the first thing you would do with it?

http://www.auctionflex.com/showlot.ap?co...m=6&lang=En

Get a white line spacer under the grip cap so it matched the butt!

I would have the area around the rear of the trigger guard invisibly repaired. I had high hopes that I could buy that beauty. It is a close match for the "Brochure Gun". Unfortunately, I couldn't find a clear enlargement of the Brochure Gun to see if the auction gun is the same gun. I have seen similar engraving patterns on other Kornbrath Model 12s, but can't locate the pictures. I may have bid on that gun but had all of my money committed to an item to come. I don't believe I will ever have another opportunity to add something like that to my Winchester pump gun collection.

Get rid of that white line pad!

An awful lot of wood & checkering wear but nearly 100% blueing. Not even the safety scratched from sliding back and forth. No blueing wear to the bottom of the action behind the trigger guard, but immediately behind that, the checkering is worn nearly flat.

That RJK signiture looks a little suspect at least in the picture.
The bluing from the cuts of the engraved signiture have worn,,but none of the bluing has worn from any other engraving cuts in the scroll pattern.
Pretty sloppy lettering for Kornbrath,,but who knows..

That wood damage around the bottom tang. That and the wear makes the wood look like it's from another shotgun to me.

Just looking at the pics (and I do realize it's tough to judge by them alone), there's a few questions about the gun and too much assumed IMHO.
...which isn't worth more than the going rate of .02!

Yes I would get rid of pad right after I removed that signature.

Is the engraving a fake, or just the signature? I am not an authority on such things.

The signature was added much later and the engraving is 100% Kornbrath.

This gun was at a gun show and a friend saw it and called me, said it was fantastic with a Owen stock and phoney signature.

Hell of a deal IMO.

Have to run I might need to bid ;-).

I think someone saw an oportunity to put together an RJK gun.

With an 'of the period' engraved M12 of what appears to be of quality and in my opinion a set of wood from another gun (perhaps an orphaned stock set), spliced together, then the RJK signiture added afterwards thru the bluing finish to add still more value.

The pheasent doesn't look quite up the 'K' standards of lifelike quality to me, the dog looks good. But again it's hard to tell from small pics.

The near 100% metal finish and extreme wear to the wood,,especially the grip checkering, still makes me think someone more recently put the two componenets together rather than they were originaly built that way.
Perhaps they are original to the gun and the metal has been reblued w/o polishing. Then an afterthought to add the RJK signiture.
A few different ways to go with it.

Seems like RJK would have at least marked it originally if it was his. He wasn't shy about signing his work, even if it was just a floorplate for a rifle.
Lots of engravers from that part of Europe cut that style of pattern,,they apprenticed at the same place. There's even some around today that can cut the style if they want to. It's not like it's a lost art or something.

"Seems like RJK would have at least marked it originally if it was his. He wasn't shy about signing his work, even if it was just a floorplate for a rifle"

I would say that Kornbrath marked less then 0.5% of his work, maybe even less than that.

Whoever got 975C may have got a good one, let us know. Hammer price was $550.

http://www.auctionflex.com/showlot.ap?co...m=1&lang=En

It's definately a cobbled up gun when it comes to a model twelve. The receiver is marked trap but has a skeet barrel on it according to the brochure. Could have been a 2 barrel set but the number on the extension tube is highly buffed and the wear doesn't match the receiver number. Also of a different size and may have been engraved to match the receiver number. It looks like a later 3 pin rib and serial number which would put the production date in the late 50's or early 60's. I would have to check the books. The wood is not original Winchester and does not look like it was fitted to this gun and so was probably added after the gun was originally manufactured. If it were mine, I would look for a minty original set of Winchester A or B carved wood. Hard to find though.

Perhaps,,but that number may have come about from all the work attributed to him,,but not necessarily done by him.

Look at all the work that's 'attributed' to Nimschke. It's not enough that he signed alot of his work, but the experts have given him even more entrys for his work book by attributing work to his hand.
His style isn't hard to do,,most any start up engraver in the US begins withat least a version of it. Many engravers of the day cut it also. As now, there are some very talented yet somewhat or totally unknown names doing fantastic work.

Even the late Lynton McKenzie who had a style most recognizable to his hand, suffered from copycats while he was still with us. It angered him that his signiture style was being taken and used by others. But it's just another cut and can be learned by an engraver,,the quality of the finished product depends on each individual of course.
There were/are more signed Lynton McKenzie guns out there than the fellow could have ever done in his short lifetime.

Where there's money to be made.,,,
Believe me,,I've seen both sides of it.

"Perhaps,,but that number may have come about from all the work attributed to him,,but not necessarily done by him."

That's my number from the Kornbrath guns I have examined and the few that I have owned over the years. I also have copies of the pulls he made and I think only one has his name on it.

There is no way to know how long the stock and shotgun have been together. Maybe it was written up at one time, I don't look at much Model 12 stuff, can anyone tell me what year the shotgun was made?

If someone replaces the stock I could store the old one here.

Michael, I'm sorry that I may have caused some confusion on the date of manufacture. I looked at the rib and thought it was a 3 pin rib which would date it as a later gun. I just went back to the listing and see it's only 298,000 so that places it at about 1922-23. The pictures of the gun showing the rib aren't the best. It has the Winchester duck foot on the receiver and if the top is matted and the rib squiggly matted with two pins holding it on, then everything is good. If the barrel rib has straight lines on it, then it is a later rib. A nice set of early custom wood would be OK as long as the whole shotgun was redone at some time. Bob

Thanks Bob, 1922-23 is right in there on the Owen Brothers style stock that this one is.

I'll stick with my hell-of-a-deal ;-).

I'm still doing a little digging but have never took much interest in pump shoguns out side of having them to use.

No mystery has been solved by admitting the barrel is not original to the gun. The WS1 choke designation is later than the manufacture of this early Trap Grade. Even the auctioneer mentions that one barrel is missing. No big deal there. I still think it is an original Kornbrath gun. By the way, who owns the enamelled Kornbrath Model 12 that sold at auction a few years ago? MP, I have seen the gun you picture before, probably in a Gun Digest of the fifties or sixties. Where is it from?

I guess going to south dakota and killing a few pheasants was not the answer you were looking for. To bad someone had to refinish the metal on this gun. Where can you find the selling prices on this auction?

John

I thought you had that, it's from a Kornbrath brochure. I remember the enameled gun but don't know who has it.

John, I watched the thing live on proxibid I'm not sure when or if the auction house will post prices online.

Auction results are here:

http://www.proxibid.com/asp/Catalog.asp?aid=43176

To view the first and second auctions, change the 43176 to 43175 and 43174.

I remember seeing the "brochure" gun in the early 70's at a sale of Parker shotguns in Marshalltown,Iowa.Someone that was with Mr. Sidwell from Omaha had it in the back of his new cadillac and was kind enough to share it with us.Sure wish I had the money then that I have now and of course the money I have now would not buy it today.He wanted 3500 for it.

I have to part company with most of you, a pump gun is essentially a shooting tool and all the engraving and fancy wood in the world cannot give it good lines. The Winchester 42 makes a stab at it but still falls short. IMO, of course.

You aren't alone mkb. Not at all. Functional, yep, I own 3. But handsome? Not a chance.

Me too. I own one pump, it's an early 1897 Win made in 1897.
Regards, Joe

Boy, I do not agree (But I can't stand M-99s)
I once had a vision of a "Set" with a M-61, .22; a M-42, .410; and a M-12, 20 Ga. I find the round-back rather lovely, myself. I might have talked Eric Gold into engraving them, anyone interested?

My darling M-12, 16 ga. If I would have had it yesterday I might have gotten those gray partridge (huns) that ripped past me at 35 yards.

I'll climb onto the pump guns as tools bandwagon, although my Ithaca 37 would be one of the last I parted with due to sentimental reasons. Give me a Smith, or a Fox if necessary. (And I love 1899/99's by the way. )

I have had a sixteen gauge Model 12 just like Steven's since I was fifteen, it is still my favorite bird gun. While it is not beautiful, it is much more than a tool. I think handsome would be fair.

For the record I am a "less is more guy" when it comes to women and makeup, gun engraving ... There are some Tammy Fay guns!

I am very much of the "less is more" school. I never before saw (or heard) the term "Tammy Fay" gun, but that sort of says it all for me. What would qualify as silicon implants for guns?

I like that, Tammy Faye Gun...
We can relate.

My vermin gun,a poor cousin to the Model 12,the Model 25.

I had a sawn off M-97 for many years, but the absence of riots in MT caused me to trade it away. I carry bear spray (S&W brand) in Griz country.
Being only 20 minutes from Alaska you have to be careful in the city parks I hear. M-25 or M-19?

As well armed as I seem the last time I had a run-in with a Brown Bear I had a staple gun in one hand and a target in the other. The staples were only 1/4" or I would have stood my ground.

The Model-25 was 150 yards away hanging on a nail outside the shop, would have been just as helpful if it was hanging in Montana.

Years ago Sara Loose asked me if I was afraid of the bears in Alaska. Told her they are not a problem, I stay out of the woods, they stay out of the bars

I'm sure that some readers don't know about the Tammy Faye gun, which is a real gun. It is item #696 in the same auction. I don't know what it sold for but will look it up. OK, got it. It sold for $6000 plus buyer's premium. The best pictures are on the main Littlejohn website. Click on "our next auction", then click on "auctionflex", then search the item numbers for #696. It will be worth the trip. Total cost $7080 plus packing and shipping unless the buyer was in the hall.

Bill, next time how about cutting and pasting the link?
Otherwise I'd like to keep Tammi Faye's gun as my personal fantasy...

I can't find the auction using your instructions. I did search around and find this little guy who needs a home - originally sold to a buyer in Ketchikan in 1927. I'm sure Ketchikan was just a wide spot in the road then - this must have been one of the finest rifles in town.

http://www.proxibid.com/asp/LotDetail.asp?ahid=3693&aid=40026&lid=11733249&rts=/asp/searchadvanced_i.asp%23searchid%3D%26type%3Dlot%26search%3Dspringfield%26sort%3Drelevance%26length%3D10%26start%3D1%26refine%3D%26nc%3D1319977648171#topoflot

(Have to cut and paste - not sure why the link doesn't work in hypertext...)

Ryan your link is below

Link

Here is the real Tammy Fay gun:

http://www.auctionflex.com/showlot.ap?co...=16&lang=En

I found it using the instructions and it is surprisingly restrained! No carving or gold filling, no eye liner...

Wow - that's quite something. Why would Ol' Jim be preachin' in front of the Vatican? (That looks like St. Peter's to me.) Typical tasteless, tone-deaf gun jewelry, just what I would expect from them.

Nice gun, but too expensive when one considers how much it would cost to have it re-engraved. I wonder how many donations from fixed income retirees it took for ol' Tammi to afford it?

I remember when my alma mater removed the "Donated by Rev. Jim and Tammy Baker" Plaques from the sky-way. Ill bet he got that a lot

Not nearly up to my Tammy Fay fantasy...
Thanks for the link.

Jim is still peddeling his form of religion in Bransom,Mo.

sdh, sorry to remove you from my preferred guru list, my take is that the Savage 99 is one of the few intrinsically good looking repeating rifles, IMO it in fact looke best without fancy wood or engraving. Can't imagine why you dislike it. As poor Latin speakers say, de gustibus non est disputandum. there is no dispurisng tastes. Certainly the 99 is by miles and miles the handsomest lever gun.

mkb,
I can't speak for Steve, but I have once pursued the 99. And then I stopped and looked again, and wondered "Why?".

It is Way too thick in the wrist, with that long expanse of emptiness between the grip and the receiver. It is not a pretty gun in my opinion.

But maybe that's just me. After all, I find the fascination with this Pachmayer 03 to be beyond my comprehension. A gaudy piece of wood to be sure, but the bloody expanse of nonfunctional forearm, not to mention the general clutteredness of being a bolt action in general, I just can't overcome no matter how hard I try.

I'm learning to love certain trapdoors, so I can be "educated" to some extent.

But I do know one 99 I would love to have. Not for the rifle is, but for the man that owned it. It's fate hangs in an estate that I presume is being settled somehow. I wonder what will become of it?

I'm in Brent's corner. There are two 99s in somewhere in one of my closets, but they are there in memory of the men who owned them, not because they are nifty pieces of machinery.

I once spent a lot of time in canoes. The short little 99s fit well hanging beneath a thwart. As did an old Peabody that I liked much more.

Truth is I'm bluing a custom barrel for a takedown M-99 .22 HP as I write this. It has a fancy walnut, perch belly stock that I just fit a genuine Savage steel buttplate to. It is sort of a composite custom of factory parts, excepting the new barrel. As purchesed didn't shoot worth sour owl sh!t but is now a tack driver. The client is planning a tiger hunt in Ohio.
But the best thing about this project is keeping me from having to turn down my friends request for an SDH custom 99, something I've avoided for decades.
As well as you know me Mark, you should Know I will Never merit guru status...
Maybe a pic in a day or two?

I have had two 1899 Featherweights in 22HP. Both first year of 22 HP production, if you believe the numbers in the back of the old Dixie catalogs. SDH's description of accuracy can readily be applied to both my former 99s. The first was acquired back when I was in high school and went away in a trade soon thereafter. #2 came in a fit of nostalgia back in 1990. Three years back, an ardent 99 collector showed up on my doorstep and made me an astonishing offer. He quickly had the 99, dies, cases, bullets and all the brass I could find. Before he could change his mind.

Maybe Kurt will tell about how this one was made accurate?
and how accurate it really is?

SDH, a pic would be wonderful.

I too was put off by the Savage design for many years. I couldn't understand why my late father was nuts about them. After acquiring the first one of my own, in what I considered a weak moment at the time, I have since become quite fond of them. Subtlety of line, innovative mechanical design, superb balance, and superior strength and accuracy compared to the Winchester 94's and Marlin 93's of their day.

The .22 HiPower can be a rascal to make shoot, but if one perseveres and thinks outside the box a bit it can be made to perform in the old 1899's quite nicely. One of those has become my favorite woods companion latterly.

This was from a recent sighting in at 100 yards, two 3-shot groups, sight adjustment in between.

I picked up this 1899 takedown in .22 HP at a pawnshop in Spokane, Wa. It had been drilled/tapped, had an el-cheapo recoil pad, and was well (ab)used, but the higher grade perchbelly stock spoke to me. I just wanted a shooter in this caliber.

After trying 55, 60, 70, & 77 gr .228 bullets, various loads, factory ammo, fore end on/off and never achieving better than minute of pie plate at 50 yds, and tired of getting just 1 reload from a fired case before case separation, I decided to try a new barrel. For .228 barrels, I found that PacNor http://www.pac-nor.com/barrels/ and Lothar Walther http://www.lothar-walther.de/159.php (look under 5.6x52R, which is the Euro designation for 22 Sav HP) make them. With previous positive experiences with PacNor, I opted for one of their Super-Match Grade Chrome Moly 1:10 twist with a custom contour matching the original lightweight takedown barrel.

I had the barrel fitted (as a takedown) by Doug Wells of Lock, Stock & Barrel in Huson, MT. He does a lot of work on 99s and did an outstanding job on mine. While he was at it, Doug went over the all the internals, replaced 1 small worn pin, and also worked on the trigger pull. Fitted with a 6X Leupold Alaskan and taken to the range, at 100 yds the first 3 shots nearly cloverleafed. Should have stopped there -- the next 2 shots opened it up to 1.5" This was with handloads and 70 gr Hornadays. I repeated a 1.5" 5 shot group with Norma factory ammo.

With Doug's carefully headspaced new barrel, there is no apparent case stretching, and I ought to get a useful number of reloads from each case.

I wanted the barrel rust blued and the caliber (and takedown directional arrow) engraved rather than stamped, so turned to Steven D. Hughes. A repro hard plastic buttplate I had tried made the shouldered rifle slip all over the place, so I also asked Steve to fit a Savage steel buttplate -- the kind with horizontal grooves -- to the stock. When Steve is done, I'll have what i wanted -- a great shooting 99 in .22 Sav Hi Power. I want to take this rifle antelope hunting here in Montana!

Well, I still think the highest grade 99's show amazing engraving and carving/checkering that is equal to any produced during that time period.Didn't Paul Curtis' wife put out an eye with a tang sighted 99?

KVN, Thanks for not telling them why I can't imagine making a beautiful custom rifle from a Savage 99, and how you disagree with me.
I will snap a few pix in a few days when the rifle is finished bluing and reassembled.

Ed Webber told me about his Dad getting a brand-new 99, .243 when he was a boy and relegating the old and worn .250 Savage to Ed. It wasn't until many years later that he realized he got the best part of that deal. Both were considered OK elk cartridges in those days. (I believe a .243 is still elk legal in MT?)
Time to boilncard...

I don't know if Savage ever made the rifle on the letter head but very fancy.

Quite a few of those old original 99s could benefit from a recrown job. My most recent one was actually a 303 1895 model made by Marlin, and it keyholed bullets regularly. I had a 30-06 finshing reamer with no throat and I ran it into the muzzle for 1/4" until I could see sharp rifling. No further smoothing of the crown and it then shot into 1.25 MOA with open sights.

Durn good rifle for its day!
Regards, Joe

This is Kurt's 99, .22HP. I rust blued the barrel and installed a steel buttplate. Question directed to Kurt.

There seems to be a small revival of interest in the .22HP I'm
thinking ofassembling one from a melange of parts. First, I have a new 24" Massachusetts barrel, probably early 1960s, square breech threads, same contour as the usual EG or R barrel, made as a spare part and obtained a few years ago from the gent who used to sell Savage parts on the Savage Collectors forum on 24 Hours. For an action I have a straight grip .22HP from a solid frame featherweight. Serial number is about 260,000 or 266,000 when the heat treaatment changed - I forge6 which it is.
Stocks woould be fromn a Brush Gun - I don't care from the finger grooves but have to use the forend for something.
Sght would be a Kollmorgen BearCub 4x in a Stith mount, all from the 1950s. These old scopes are quite decent optically albeit they do not have a self centering reticle. This is a comparatively heavy barrel for a .22HP. I have only seem one, a FWTD sold at Amoskeag several years ao that had been back to the factory in the '20s for an extra 26" .303 contour barrel in .22HP. The gun was mint but I dropped out of the bidding around 2g. I wonder who has it and whether he has shot it. I also vaguely remember an article by Allyn Tedmon in the
Rifleman in the 30s or 40s about a long barrel 99 with a MAlcolm scope -there waz a picture of it. The FWs TDs had a terrible reputation for accuracy- probably the TD, and when Whelen had G&H make him a .250 he had the barrel soldered in place. It wax the first rifle Whelen got a 1" ten shot group from. We in th Rifled Arms HIstorical Assn own it today and it s6ill shoots lt wonderfully well.

correction, serial no. is abve the deviding line.

A long-barreled, sold frame .22 H.P. 99 with Stith mounts would be pretty cool! If you decide to go forward with this project, keep us posted.

I've decided to incorporate a Pac-Nor .228" HP barrel into my current 1899 takedown custom project too. It already has a .25/35 barrel fitted. No scope, just a Lyman 30½ tang sight. Progress is slow (Mausers keep getting in the way!), pics to follow on completion. I can't afford to go out and buy pretty pre-war original custom jobs, so I'm forced to build them myself- a little at a time!

I am puzzled, altho grateful, that Savage made a solid frame .22HP barrel as a spare part after the move to Massachusetts. I see no reason why the .22HP should not shoot as well as any .22 on the .30-30 case with good bullets.

Absolutely Mark. Making that caliber work in an original Savage Takedown rifle can be a real challenge, but it can be done. It should be a piece of cake in a solid frame. Having a fresh barrel with (hopefully) a decently tight chamber is another plus. Your barrel is only the second one of that nature I have heard of.

Mark may have identified a part (good bullets in factory ammo) of the original problem with the Savage 1899 Takedown. The 22HP did not receive all the developmental work (mostly from 3rd party makers) that went into .224 bullets for the wildcat 22s based on the 30-30 case. Savage made 1899 Takedown rifles in other calibers. Do rifles in those other calibers have the same reputation for lack of accuracy?

I don't find a lack of accuracy in any of the 1899 takedowns I have. Of course, mine are all very snug, and I don't take them down very often. The bugabear of poor accuracy in the .22 HiPower is mainly the result of mis-matched bullets. Most commonly available 70 grain .228 bullets today are too long to stabilize in the 1-12" twist found in those early Savages. Older generation round nose 70 grain bullets are short enough to stabilize and actually shoot quite well. Needless to say finding stocks of old Sisk and discontinued Speers is getting harder as time goes by. Buffalo Arms sells a couple of lighter bullets but they seem to be a little too thin-jacketed for deer size game, although they shoot well. Don't waste your time with the current Hornady .228 spire point. It's too long by .1" (I make a file trim die to shorten them, then they work.)

Savage TDs in other calibers shoot nicely too, having worked with .303s, .30/30s and .25/35 calibers. They are indeed amongst the handiest rifles for a day of woods loafing ever invented. I tend to get better accuracy with them than with run-of-the-mill Winchester and Marlin lever guns too.

Basically, the HP is no more difficult to master than any .22 CF IF the bore is crisp, the chamber isn't too generous, the TD feature is snug, and most importantly the bullets suitable. I routinely expect 1 1/4-1 1/2" groups @100 with mine, with tang sights, if I squint just right and the gods smile on me.

Try .224 bullet's and you'll be pleasantly surprised!

Guess I'll take my 303 to the range and give it a try.

I don't care for .224 bullets in my .228 bores. I shoot them a lot and just don't like the idea of extra gas cutting in the throat that's gotta be happening before the smaller bullets bump up to fill the grooves, no matter how accurate they are. I presume it wouldn't be much of an issue for the casual user (be sure to switch out the expander ball in the sizer die).

Not the Wundhammer 99! This thread inspired me to dig mine out:

[URL=http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/405/phpff9kuzpm.jpg/][/URL

Taken this morning. The 99 is a take down 250 Savage from the teens rescued and restored for my father 25 or 30 years ago. It is accurate enough for hunting and breaks down small enough to fit in a knapsack. I don't like take downs or lever guns much, but rules should have exceptions.

I'm jealous, a shooting range inside were you just open the window to shoot. It was 10 below with wind blowing the last couple days I think our seasons over.

Looks like a nice Bausch & Lomb spotting scope,I have two, my favorite scope.

I was thinking the same thing... yesterday the high was about 11, today the wind is blowing a steady 35... Shooting isn't very pleasent in these conditions.

Where is that range with the green grass and sliding windows?