Picked up this old heavy barrel SS Martini action from friend Brad B. last week- I had thought about having it re-chambered to .22Mag- I have a large stockpile of .22 Magnum shells- great for woodchucks and tree rats-- Brad passed on doing this, too many steps involved and it would not be economical, in his opinion and experience, to do this. So today I put a cheapo Simmons 4x32 .22 scope on it and took it to the local range- great trigger, steady, accurate- Now--I would like to upgrade the scope-- bear in mind I have 20/20 vision with no defects (yet anyway) and for the range I am using this piece, 6x to 8x would be tops in magnification range- prefer a fixed power- with a 36mm to 40mm objective lens- any thoughts or if someone has a scope (1" tube) for sale, I would be glad to consider it-- I've had it with trying to out--figure the bids and the schmucks on E-Bay, half of whom will sell only if you have Pay Pal- and I trust that and plastic money like I trust Obama, Brady, Bloomberg. etc--

As a guy that has bought and sold on ebay, I take exception to your "schmucks" comment and I'm sorry to hear about your attitude towards it. However, that is where the best likelihood of finding an interesting scope lies.

In the absence of that route and a nice Unertl or Fecker or Lyman that you might have found there, I can only suggest the remake of the Winchester B5 that is made by Montana Vintage Arms - get the version with the target knobs. It is an excellent value. Unfortunately, it is not listed on their website for some reason but give them a call. They have a very fine scope that would be totally appropriate for your rifle.

Well at least I didn't say -"Schmucks with earlaps, already"--like those who claim to have bought Winchester shotguns for low ball $- when it is illegal to buy or sell entire firearms, ammunition or gun parts receivers on E-Bay- My gripe is the 'rigged bids" I enter a bid on a scope for let's say $75.30, and I get a red letter notice that I have just been outbid by $1.50 more- so I re-up the bid, and the same crapola reply pops up-- Don't the E-Bay sellers have anything better to do than to stay on their sites and rig their bids up to the max- E-Bay, or as I often call it- Ex-Lax Bay- home of the "Tech Weinies"--

I think you need to study up on how ebay works. I don't rig my auctions and I've sold a few scopes recently. Folks got them for damn good prices too.

But whatever jerks your chain. Buy the MVA I told you about and be happy. Or whatever.

Proxibid-Firearms Auctions
They've had several nice vintage type scopes sell in the past month that I didn't win, but I'm cheap.

I had typed out a long winded tutorial for RWTF about how he should learn the ins and outs of eBay buying. Then I deleted it while thinking "don't do that- the last thing I need is yet another person bidding against me for the cool esoteric gun stuff that pops up!" Whew! Dodged that bullet!

Good move Gary, but I could have used a few more folks bidding against each other for the 30x Fecker and the 2-eye piece Fecker with box. Both went too damn cheap.

In the last 2-3 yrs I think the price of top end "Vintage" scopes has softened considerably.

Which E-Bay do you mean? The one I find on Goog;le search doesn't allow guns or ammo to be sold- just gun related items like cases, scopes, slings- What pisses me off is the rigged bids- like they have some or automatic machine that steps up the bid- that's like playing table stakes poker with a man named "Doc"-- only the NYSE is a bigger rigged game than E-Bay- plus it was founded by a bunch of Kalifornia piss=headed hippies, the left-overs from the flower power idiots of the 1960's--

You know, RWTF, trying to help you is a losing proposition.

You are clueless about how ebay works and unwilling to learn.

That's too bad - for you. I'm done trying to help ya.

Brent I think this member is a lot like Joe (the Westerner) on another site. Knows but can't resist stirring the pot. smile JMO Whitey

Well, Westerner never called me a schmuck, or accused me of rigging bids.

Brent you are sure right about that.At least Joe knew what he was talking about. He just done it to stir the conversion up.And not because he was just being a ????. Whitey

Ooopsie- my bad- I thought you were just trying to "jerk my chain"- so to speak-- Trying to "help Me" here on the old BBS run by Davey-Boy-- I am sorry, I didn't get that message--That might be a "first"-- most folks here just sorta "jump into my &^%$ and let 'er rip- even when I reply to questions about welding- my stock in trade. Truth be told, there are about a handful of guys here to whom I actually psay attention when they either post or reply to a post-- they are: Jerry Linden, Raimey Ellenberg and JBR from N. Dakota, and Jim the Italian guy- a true Paisano--the rest of you, not so much. I'd like to know more about E-Bay, but as I refuse to use plastic money or Pay Pal, it's really a moot point, is it not? You have to have a Pay Pal account to buy the stuff listed there, and to have a Pay Pal account, I believe you must have a credit card- sort of an Euclidian theorm, in reverse, wouldn't you say? You know- If A is equal to B, and B is equal to C, then, ergo, A is also equal to C-but I digress-- Thanks for the possible kind thoughts, and if you ever need any technical advice about welding, I shall be most pleased to assist you in that realm. RWTF

Oh shoot- I'm busted!!

I had a Model 12 takedown in 22LR. I had a spare 22 Mag barrel fitted to it and using three different gunsmiths, it would not extract the empties. John Taylor in Washington state claims that the problem is the long straight case.

When you say Model 12- to a long in the tooth Winchester guy- so I am guessing you mean the Remington Model 12 .22LR pumpgun- I have mounted the scope and shot this BSA- wow- real sweet shooting rifle-- wish .22LR ammo wasn't so dear-

Isn't the Model 12 action a little short for .22WRM? Even the ones originally made for the .22WRF/"Remington Special"? Getting all the geometry right on a complex feeding gun like that is darn tricky--I can see why the conversion would have problems.

Somehow this went from 12/15 martini to 12 Remington pump. Martini also had a mod 12.
I agree with Fox. Cash has always worked best for me. I would put serious thought into turning the 12/15 into a hornet get a mold Lyman 225438 and the stuff that goes with it. and you wont have to worry wether you will run out of 22s to shoot.

Getting back to the original question, I have a BSA Martini Model 15 that was converted to .22 Hornet using the original .22 Long Rifle barrel prior to my acquiring it. It's the less common saw-handled stock, but is otherwise quite similar to RWTF's Model 12/15, except that the rear sight is actually mounted on a vertical dovetail at the rear of the action rather than separately on the tang.

The firing pin needed to be re-bushed, which was done by David Kaiser. Once that was done, I discovered it is a quite pleasant and more than satisfactorily accurate rifle. I have no idea how long the rifling in barrel will last with the higher temperatures and pressures of the Hornet compared to the Long Rifle, but I doubt I'll shoot it out in my lifetime.

The .222 requires a rimless extractor (Bob Snapp made them and may still, for all I know) or procurement of a batch of .222R cases.

As nearly as I can tell from 20 years of small frame Martini shooting, the BSA rimfires make quite satisfactory rimfires as long as the firing pin is bushed. Since you have to bush the Cadet firing pins as well for any of the higher pressure cartridges, starting with a rimfire is not really all that inconvenient. I've owned small frame Martini centerfires in .20-20 KCF (think .20 Mashburn Bee), .20 Tactical, .22 Hornet, .218 Bee, .218 Mashburn Bee, .219 Zipper, .222 Rimmed, .225 Winchester (which was loaded down a bit in view of the case diameter), .256 Winchester, .310 Cadet, and .357 Magnum, and I've probably left one or two out. I have an action set aside that will be a .30-30 or a 7x30 Waters if I ever get the funds and the ambition together simultaneously. They are fun little guns and deserve more respect than they get.

Are 22 R/F barrels really any different from centre fire barrels?
I have asked various people about this and most seem to think they are for some reason or other without having any facts to support this.

Thanks- I agree 100% about the 12/15 Martini-- I am not as familiar as you are with the other Martini models- but I like this one- 29" heavy wall barrel, sweet trigger, positive lever and ejection of the spent shells- all good indeed.

Nero:

I've heard all kinds of things about the differences between rimfire and centerfire barrels. I cannot answer the question definitively, but I have read some knowledgeable writers who have suggested that the rimfire barrels are softer than centerfire barrels and so wear more quickly when shot with jacketed bullets. I would expect the rates of twist to differ and a lot of early .22 rimfire barrels seem to be .222 or .223 rather than .224. The early Hornets used a .223 bullet in part because they were being developed on .22 rimfires. I think it was Mark Berenson who was looking for an early BSA Martini that was converted to centerfire and chambered for .22 Hornet as part of the development of that cartridge. Don't know if he ever located the rifle.

Rem

Rem
I have a 43 Win in hornet. Im shooting the lyman225438gc bullet without worring about wearing out the barrel or overstressing the action. I would think the 22mag would be harder on the Martini than the hornet. I have a cadet with a short heavy barrel chambered in 222r that is very acurate with the match bullets Will try the cast sometime this summer. 222 probably a better choice than the hornetr.
One summer I killed more groundhogs with a #1 ruger tropical 458mag and 500gr. gcrn under 150yds than my varmint rifles. That was a very acurate rifle if you could handle the recoil.

I am embarrassed to admit how many assorted miniature Martinis I own. My favorite is a H&H that was Parkerifled and chambered for the .22 hornet. Its had thousands of factory and handloads through it by me and still is as accurate as when I bought it used, and I have no idea how many rounds the original owner shot. Virtually all of the pre-war custom Hornets were made with rimfire barrels and most seem to shoot well with reasonable loads and last forever.

Whew! I didn't realize that this thread was still going on! The small Martini is a strong action and many have been converted to high intensity cartridges, up to and beyond the hot centerfires. That's too far in my opinion. I know of a Cadet, different but about the same size as the 12/15, that was barreled to a 5.6X50R Magnum. The chamber bulged but the action held up to stiff handloads. I don't know the charges. It was rebarreled to a more sane caliber and is still in use. My earlier point about rechambering the 22LR to 22 Magnum is about extracting the long straight case. I have no doubt that the .22 Hornet would extract perfectly.

Me neither- I had it for a "sniper op." the other day at a favorite area dairy farm- the huge pile of used truck and tractor tires (tyres for the Brits) I call "The Goodyear Hole" is a playground for woodchucks this time of year- so I hid in a barn loft in the shadows- range about 125 ft. and downhill- and waited them out- Another advantage besides the sniper mantra of "one shot-one kill" with this .22 with the current ammo situation- one shot, all or nothing- I popped 3 within 2.5 hours, and lung or neck shots-love that heavy 29" barrel

A Fox is a Feral whichever way you look at it. Shoot it and be done with it.

Yes indeed. One July evening about 4 years ago- son-in-law and I were in a 80 acre rolling field- 40 in corn, 40 in just cut alfalfa-- we had nailed two "whistle piggies" when from our hide in the fairly high corn, we saw several foxes emerge to cruise the alfalfa. I nailed one with my Sako .243- and Jeff popped the other running with his .22-250 Ruger-- about 1/2 hour later three more came out to check out their dead brothers, we got one, the other two hauled ass back into the corn. A Fox is like a Feral cat-except the color and bushy tail- so at shorter range a .22LR hollow-point (CCI mini-mags) in the head is sure and sudden death- I kill every fox I can see-

A friend in England who lives in the centre of a town in Kent sent me this photo of one of several fox's that his wife feeds.
Regards, Roly.

She is taking quite a chance- Foxes are highly rabid and cannot be tamed--I prefer to feed them a high velocity bullet- head shots preferred.

Yes your right as these Foxes keep their distance and are not pets, any sudden movement and they are gone, they don't have rabies in England though.
Regards, Roly.