doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Winchester Field Loads in L.C.Smith Double ? ?

Gentlemen:

I am seeking advice and direction regarding the appropriate loading for a vintage (1914) L.C. Smith SxS 12 gauge of the Feather Weight variety.

I am aware that Winchester produces under their "Super-X" brand a 12 gauge load which they recommend for Pheasant hunting. The specs. are 12 Ga., 2 3/4" length, 3 1/4 Dram Equi.(powder), and 1 1/4 ounce of No.5 lead shot. This shotshell is Winchester Product Code No. X12P5.

On their web site they publish the velocity at 1220 f.p.s. What concerns me are the words; "Lead Shot Heavy Field Loads" which appears on their packaging for Product Code No. X12P5.

Would this particular loading of 3 1/4 Drams Equ. be pushing the envelope for these fine, (almost) 100 year old shotguns, and thus be shortening their life span? If so, would you care to recommend an alternative load that would be acceptable for field hunting the Pheasant?

Thank you

Some better options http://www.lcsmith.org/faq/pheasants.html and this assuming the gun is tight and on face and that the head of the stock has been examined for cracks and repaired and/or glasbedded.
I use B&P MB Classic 1 1/8 oz at 1330 fps in my 1906 Smith, but for almost all rough shooting 'going away' shots on tough Kansas and South Dakota birds. The Italian 4s are quite similar to U.S. 5s.
http://bandpusa.com/hunting/mb-classic.html

And I do not shoot anything but B&P 2.5 inch shells in any of my guns regardless of make, age, or chamber length. The one ounce loads are low pressure, the 1 and 1/16th is still only 8,400 psi.

I shoot them from opening day to the last day in January and almost exclusively for pheasants. There isn't a pheasant alive that can't be killed grave yard dead with them.

I use the Win Super-X in my old fluid steel doubles, but I only use the regular field load at 1 oz. FWIW, I did an informal comparison a few years ago in an LC Smith FW Ideal 16. Shot doves with the Win Super-X, Fed Field Loads, and Rem promo loads from Wally World. All were 3-1/4Dx1ozx7.5, and the Wins were by far the softest shooting of the bunch. There have been discussions over on the SSM BBS about factory shells for old doubles, and the consensus was that the Win Super-X is a pretty good choice.

I concur-- I use AA 12 Trap loads- both Lites and handicap for the second barrel- I have shot hundreds of both pheasants and pigeons- in theloaded and remote control released spring traps for retriever trials- also Tower released phesant and barn pigeons- and within proper range the 12 1 & 1/8 loads will kill them in flight-

Glad you specified the species here, however.I am 70- no Tom Roster or the late Bob Brister- BUT- IMO and IMO only- incoming and overhead pheasants in flight are the easier of the shot opportunities to kill deadly and clean in flight- birds flushing and going straight-away are the hardest, and there, a heavier load in the second barrel may well be needed to get clean kills- and not leave cripples for the predator patrols--

Here's another observation, for what it is worth- One man, or perhaps two men hunting together but taking "round Robin" turns with a single close working pointing dog- they ealk in on the point and kick and scuff- 75% (est'd) of the time they'll get a low and straight away bird- hardest to kill- a straight away climbing bird, if your lead and swing are correct, you'll get the pattern in the head and neck-dead bird right now-

But, make that a flushing dog, and especially on a day with gusty winds that change directions- and you'll usually see more birds that flush and climb in that corkscrew pattern that resembles a UH-1 Huey with a loose Jesus nut- the rotor spin is erratic--

Pick the double (or model 12) and choke and barrel length you like best- but for pheasants- make mine a 12 gauge- a great game bird like John Q. Ringneck deserves no less afield- a strong flush, a cackle that sounds like a cathouse madam imitating Yoko Ono, a spirit that will gladly spit vinegar in your eye if he could, and a game bird in his own right that does NOT surrender his life easily- what a great challenge!!

I use 2 3/4" 3 dram one ounce in my guns with damascus barrels. LC used 2 3/4" chambers in all their 12 ga guns.

But then I'm no hunter, just a clay bird misser.