doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Is this a percussion conversion?

First post to the wealth of knowledge out there in this forum. Is there anyone who can help me with this gun? Its made by J Sanders of Loughborough, England. I have found a Joseph Sanders gunmaker there who probably died in 1841, but its a breechloader, and the action also makes me suspect its a conversion from percussion - not easy or inexpensive, so unusual for a provincial gun. I havent any more photos as it belongs to a friend some distance away. The action is an unusually positioned sidelever without a snap action, but the barrel is also held in with crossbolt at the front of the action face - for removal of the barrels this needs pushing out. The small forend appears to have no use except for decoration. The action flats have "Joseph Smith patent" engraved with a use number (737). Again this patent is new to me.
Its an interesting piece which still shoots well with thick barrels.
Anyone know ? [img]http://http://s1275.beta.photobucket.com/user/timothymanners/media/P1000507.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0[/img]

I couldn't get the link to work. I edited the [img] out of the address and it worked:

http://s1275.photobucket.com/albums/timothymanners/?action=view&current=P1000507.jpg

As far as a percussion conversion one indication is that there is no flaring at the outside of the breech end of the barrels since the original percussion barrels didn't flare since the chamber was the same diameter as the bore. I have a 14 bore Purdey percussion conversion that was converted to a sixteen chamber breech loader intended to use Kynoch thin wall brass hulls. This is because there wasn't wall thickness for a 14 bore chamber. So it is a gun with a 16 bore chamber and a 14 bore bore.

That looks pretty modern (1880s) to me. The big flat one piece sidelock does not look like the lock on a percussion gun I don't think.

The gun you posted called a "bar in wood" gun because the wood wraps around the action.


Best,

Mike

Link doesn't work for me.

I don't think that was ever a percussion gun.

Here is the gun in question.



Doesn't look like a conversion to my eyes either.

Pete

Looks like a Joseph Smith patent single bolt. We see these guns under the Smith name and a few others. I believe if you were able to look closely the "pin" you see at the far right of the picture Pete posted is a round removeable pin that serves as the pivot pin for the barrels. Interesting design.

The Joseph Smith patent was sold with the names Smith, Simkins, Conway, and Powell [info from a friend]. Does anyone have guns marked this way or marked with another seller's name with the J Smith patent ?

thats fantastic information all who contributed and thanks. Brilliant photo to compare Daryl. Its easy to see why this was a blind alley in breechloader development, but if you never have to take the gun apart its an easy mechanism to use,
I will enjoy letting the owner know,
Tim