doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com 5 pin, vs 7 pin v 9 pin sidelock--discusson

Oh, brother. Okay let�s continue. The only problem is they only cover the English patents and do not fully cover the French, German, Belgium and the other countries that have developed the breech loading sidelock. Hopefully, the book or books mentioned by Wildcattle, when translated, will cover those country�s development as well. A more complete study of even one of those countries would be beneficial as to which maker called what pin a peg or an axle or a pin.

Guys, I think some are getting away from the topic and need to do private messaging.

JDW- are you ever tempted to take some stones and crocus cloth to the lockwork of the Zabala?

The design, a back action coil sprung sidelock is intriguing, but the surface finish obviously was not a priority at the factory.

Ever since suffering two V spring breaks on consecutive hunts on the same high end SXS, I gained great respect for coil springs.

On the general topic of pins. How is a pinless action classified and compared to a pinned one? The classic sidelock has visible pins, pinless guns are a later development, reputed to have been devised so as to offer more engraving room.

Shotgunlover, I take it you are referring to the inside of the lock. If so this is what I did to them. If you mean the outside, that is the way it came and will stay. Wish I could find more like these at the price I paid. Missed out on a nice 20.

A "pinless" action is in name only. The maker simply controls the hole depth so as to maintain blind holes, holes that don't show on the lock plate outside. Screws, pins, axles, pivots, etc. are sized so as to fit the blind holes. More work for the maker, but it then shows an uninterrupted engraving surface. OK, technically it has more engraving area, as by the combined section area of those pins, screws, pivots, and axles, and etc.

I have a theory that it was developed to further comfound the discussion of how many pins equals what -----


DDA

Sorry Treblig, mind you I must confess I like a Westley droplock as much as a side lock and I do like Bentleys and Bugattis, here are a few pics of mine before financial circumstnces meant it had to go

http://s222.photobucket.com/user/mlb6363...362288106052356

best
Mike

Mike, I hate to break away from the main subject matter, but WOW that is one nice automobile. Is it a true restoration and there can't be that many survivors left in the world.
What model is that, it doesn't look like a Type 35?

JDW- yes that is the treatment I had in mind, so everything really works as it should. Now if a maker sees his way to put that simplified lock into something based on the external form of the Holland Dominion, I would be interested.

Mike- that is one handsome vehicle. It must have needed a lot of determination to maintain in that condition!

Rocketman- the only pinless I held in my hands was a Zannotti, with the pins sticking up, machined from the solid. I guess the same visual effect is rendered with blind pin holes.

I would rather see the pins showing. Looks more aesthetic, especially when they are blued.
There is a lot more work in making them "pin less". If the lock plates are only about .125 thick (1/8"), then the hole depth would have to be a little over .093 (3/32") and a bottoming tap used to get near the full depth of the thread, but then again the hole through locks have to have the threads to a certain depth also as to not let them go through the lock plate and yet still be tight.

Mike!!!! That was all tongue and cheek humor on my part that blew up in my face. I'll try to be more careful next time. It's all because I love the muzzleloaders which are, of course, 99.9% sidelocks and never cared much for the breechloaders.

But carry on guys, carry on.

Beautiful car Mike!!! Bugatti and Bentley, what names and what a heritage!!!