doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Shooting the OLD ones

How about we hear some more about the Woodward? Please?

DDA

Not unless reproofed. There wasn't any proofmark indicating shot charge when that gun was made.

Magnificent Gun: Shooting old ones is pure pleasure.
When they ask: "Are those Damascus?" My answer is "Yes, You better stand back."
Sam Ogle, Lincoln, NE

Absolutely Great.

I acquired it several years ago from Kirby. Just too good to pass on. I don't own a camera suitable to transfer photo's to the internet...really do have to get one. Locks marked J. Woodward & Sons. 3XXX number range. Action flats marked: 16 Woodward"s Patent, crown V and a crown with BNP. Snap under lever with 1 sliding bolt and 2 round bolts. Best engraving (have missed a few clays when my eye was drawn to that level of quality), and stunning French walnut butt at 14 & 3/4 inches. Forend is key fastened with matching wood. Barrels are 30 inch sleeved and marked as such with Birmingham proofs. 12-70. 18-4, Birmingham nitro proof under crown, STD under crown Original top rib and bottom ribs relayed, marked James Woodward & Sons, 64 St. James Street, London. Marked 1 (of a pair).
As received, choked @ 36 and 44. Clays just winked out when hit but, these were pretty tight for my taste. I had them opened to 20 and 28. Much better on clays and pheasant. I really like using this gun. I will have my gunmaker clean and refinish the wood as it's a bit cloudy, masking some of that outstanding grained walnut. Should be real eyepopping when cleaned up. Gun fits me well and I enjoy shooting it. Having been sleeved, it came at a price that I could afford. For me, it's a "keeper"!

I really have no interest in modern shotguns...the old ones are just so gorgeous.Several folks have told me my trigger guard was broken when I was shooting my 1901 Green Jones action hammer.lol.
franc

It is proofed for about anything as it is a 10 bore chamberlined to 12 ga

It'd be interesting to see what kind of pressure 12ga loads generate in that gun. Under current SAAMI standards, 10ga service pressure is lower than 12ga: 11,000 psi vs 11,500.

31 May 2014


�Stallones,� yours is a very photogenic and beautifully built circa 1873 Stephen Grant & Sons gun with Jones underlever. I believe the fine hammer guns built during that particularly remarkable gunmaking era are nonpareil, especially those built by Grant and J. Woodward & Sons. Those of us who own antique and vintage guns and are aware of their exceptional quality and innate capabilities are sometimes amused by the sudden surprise and even awe expressed by committed users of 'modern' guns. This usually occurs when the unaware modern gun user is first confronted by the high quality and remarkable capabilities of our elder guns, especially if put on display by someone who knows how to use their attributes to best effect, whether at the range or gun club, or on the shooting field.

The wonderful quality of your gun, and that of the gunmaking firm generally, interested and intrigued me. That caused me to undertake some quick research. Inexplicably, I did not find much information about the aforementioned Grant underlever gun, although I did find an excellent article concerning J. Woodwood & Sons guns, earlier mentioned here in comments by "Erik 375," which is shared below. (See �Great Unsung Guns of England, More Than Purdey,� by Terry Wieland, page 58, Gun Digest 2013). I hope everyone enjoys the excerpt:

�James Woodward & Sons was in the absolute top echelon of London gunmakers, mentioned in the same breath as Purdey and Boss. James the elder learned the trade with Charles Moore, brought his sons James and Charles into the business, and became J. Woodward & Sons, in 1872.

�Although it remained a small family firm for its 80-year existence (it was absorbed by Purdey in 1948, the only company Purdey ever acquired), the Woodwards were inventors, as well as the finest of gunmakers.

�In 1876, James the younger collaborated with the well-known inventor Thomas Southgate to patent an underlever cocking action for hammer guns, called the 'Automation.' This mechanism (patent No. 600) was easily adapted to a hammerless sidelock with tumblers and, as such, was called 'The Automatic.' It was widely advertised, and the name is engraved on the rib near the standing breech. Woodward made a specialty of underlever guns, employing several types from the swiveling Jones underlever to push-forward 'snap action' underlevers and the tumbler-cocking snap underlever of the Automatic.

�Traditionally, Woodward�s main rival in the trade was Boss & Co., which favored sidelevers, until the firm was acquired by John Robertson, in 1892. Robertson not only refined Boss� game guns, he invented the Boss over/under and selective single trigger. Woodward followed suit with an over/under and single trigger of its own, today, the Woodward over/under is widely considered the finest ever made. Purdey�s major motive for buying Woodward, in 1948, was to obtain the over/under design for themselves.

�Although the quality of its guns was never questioned, the Woodwards were known for being iconoclastic. The firm favored 29-inch barrels, while others made theirs 30-inches. Woodwards featured half-pistol hands, when others insisted on straight grips, and their walnut was known for its flair. Among engraving patterns, the Woodward craftsmen preferred tiny scroll, and the arcaded (umbrella-carved) fence became almost a trademark of them, as did protruding tumbler pivots on their lock plates.

��There were other Woodwards in the trade, including two in Birmingham, and one must be careful. As well, J. Woodward�s output was not large�only about 5,000 guns and rifles over an 80-year period�and most were purchased by serious shooters who knew guns. As such, they were put to hard use. Steve Denny, a director of Holland & Holland, says he has seen many �tired old Woodwards' over the years, and many have been either rebarreled or sleeved�Examining a gun from J. Woodward & Sons shows you what gunmaking can be.�

The foregoing is the best short description of this firm and its productions that I have to date found published.

If one were considering the refinishing of their gun�s wood, I would encourage them to have the wood refinished. I have had the wood on all of my antique game guns professionally refinished. However, all mechanical problems are successfully dealt with first and foremost, if present. Then, leaving the action metal alone, I tend to have the furniture �carefully� reblacked so as not to diminish the clarity or sharpness of the engraving, and have the barrels professionally rebrowned or reblacked as well. That is sensible and sensitive restoration, without any attempt to make the gun new; but done instead to have it appear and truly be used though well maintained. Whenever it can be done, I think professional restorative maintenance and maintenance per se are part of one's temporal conservator-ship and responsibility, and that the oppositional insistence on �originality,� irrespective of all other considerations, such as aesthetics and mechanical condition, is overdone and sometimes harmful to the gun.

It is good to know that the majority of correspondents employ their antique and vintage guns at the skeet, sporting clays or trap range, and afield certainly, as too many times these practical and useful works of art languish in our safes or remain arranged in the gun rack, and not used as intended.

Personally, I generally use a circa 1890 consecutive pair of 12-bore (2-1/2 inch) J. Harkom & Son guns when at the gun club: the 30-inch barreled gun for trap, choked half and three-quarter; and the second with 28-inch barrels, choked improved cylinder and half, for skeet. Afield, and if the game bird is pheasant or a species of our larger grouse, I use the 12-bore (2-1/2 inch), circa 1893 W. W. Greener G 60 �Royal,� choked half and three-quarter; and if the game is quail or of similar size, the circa 1882 Westley Richards 20-bore (2-1/2 inch used, though nitro-proofed in the 1930s for 3-inch), choked cylinder and quarter, makes the hunting trip. The circa 1882 10-bore (2-7/8 inch) Westley Richards �Highest Quality� gun is reserved for cranes or when ducking. Like the correspondents here, I too use appropriate ammunition that accords with the gun being shot.

I do not use black powder as the propellant loaded in the cartridges fired by my antique breech-loading guns, although I know many people who use it exclusively and obviously like to use it for their separate purposes. They seem to like the authenticity and tradition attaching to its use, both of which ideals I support. Most of my shooting is done with either �Game Bore� or �RST� 2-1/2 inch ammunition, or commercial light trap loads if the gun has original 2-3/4 inch chambers, whether at the club, range or afield. I conscientiously keep the velocity and weight of the number 7 or 8 shot charge (I only use no. 5 or 6 shot in the 10-bore, and then only for a specific purpose.) low as practicable in these damascus-barreled guns, and because these are mainly light game guns, which have been stocked with wood over 120-years old.

The consensus here seems to be that most like damascus barrels, and do utilize them. I much prefer damascus barrels to steel barrels for a number of reasons, as I am sure several of the correspondents here do, but unfortunately have had to reeducate my fellow shooters on a few occasions concerning the advisability of their use. Frankly, I try to ignore the unconvinced naysayer who cannot be persuaded with facts or is willfully ignorant on the subject, apparently preferring old wives� tales, and simply recommence enjoying my sport. As it usually happens, however, most listen to someone who knows and can convey the facts, and they will accept fact as fact. I believe that the more our elder, damascus-barreled guns are brought out from wherever stored and used, the more often other enthusiasts will see them, and the sooner come to (again) accept them as non-dangerous, fully practical and useful.

I am sure that all will continue to greatly enjoy their "OLDER" guns for many years to come.


Best regards,

Edwardian

Stallones, I enjoy seeing your gun. Here's a pic of a very fine 1883 I recently shot at the Nimrod Classic in Polson, Mt. Notice the black powder, but I was not "high gun".