doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com What's the biggest problem ..........updated

Wowiee.

Something went right.

Interesting results. Thank you gentlemen for taking the time to do the work and share the results.

The biggest thanks goes to Shotgunjones for prodding me into trying the 3/4 oz. loads. I really didn't think it would work, especially not this much. I knew, and understood, the way recoil affects POI in a S x S, but the reason I didn't have much faith in it is that I had already tried going from 1/2 oz. to 11/16 oz. and got no lateral movement of the patterns at all. So, I "reasoned", if adding 1/4 oz. to the load didn't help any how could adding another 1/16 oz. do any good. Glad I didn't listen to "reason", and tried it. Maybe the lower velocity, giving more barrel time, played a part in it.

Since having my plate I'm seeing more and more that trial and error wins out over "reasoning". And ................anytime I get to pull a shotgun trigger it's fun, even if I'm only shooting at a 4' square plate.

Next step, get my loader rigged up for 3/4 oz. loads and try some of this nickel plated stuff.

All my best, SRH

I may have had less confidence than Stan did.

It's pretty cool though, and I'm as pleased as if it had been my gun.

Sometimes a silly idea just works out.

Stan;
Happy to hear that worked out for you. This will make that little .410 a lot more useful for you. Makes me a bit confident I was right in my diagnosis way back early in the thread that the loads simply were not torquing the gun enough to offset their built in convergence. I am like you though I won't have thought the change from 11/16 ounce to 3/4 ounce would have made that much difference. Must have been getting virtually no side "Twist" with the 11/16 (or 1/2 ounce) load & the extra 1/16 oz of shot plus the lower muzzle velocity put it just over the edge & allowed the needed sidewise movement to the barrels. For this thought we definitely have to give Jonsey Full credit, I would have though it would have taken far more than you could have stuffed into a .410 hull to make that much difference.

If I'm readying this right, a 2 3/4 load of 1 1/4 at 1400 fps generates a lot more than 6200psi. Without consulting my books to verify I would guess you are closer to 10,000 psi.

Stan, reckon you need a hair less drop?
JR

Stan, those are better looking POI patterns. Interesting what a small change will do to POI and convergences. The pressures on those shells are about as high as I am happy to go at 13K to 13.5K. 13.5 is the MAP for 3" .410 loads according to SAAMI. I know you are using a modern gun which should be fully capable of handling them. I'd contact Hodgdon and Alliant powder to see what they have for loading data. I have had great loads using 300-MP and 296 but pressure is only half your problem. You might need the full 13.5 and a similar burning rate to keep your POI where you want it. So it will be reload and retest until you get the results you want.

I have seen a few people who reload, have this dumb idea that slightly more powder than called for will not make much difference. In the .410 a increase of .5 grains may cause the pressure to go up 500-600 plus psi which does not sound like much until you get to those 13.5K loads, Worse are the idiots who go a full grain over recommended loads. Pressure is not a linear thing in reloading, it would be so much easier if it were.

One local Skeet club shooter was having primers flattened and the primer puncture and he could not figure out why on his .410 reloads. I cut one of his reloads apart and found he was loading 1.7 grains over the recommended load which was 12.5K. In 2 1/2" .410 MAP is only 12.5 and that extra 1.7 grains had to be pushing his pressure well over that to almost proof load levels. You can't fix stupid but you can refuse to shoot on his squad.

Factory 3/4 oz. duplication load is published Jon. It's 15 gr of 296/H110 and they all go 1100 fps at 13,100 to 13,500 psi which is where the 3" 410 runs.

Not to worry.

In fact the goal here is low-ish velocity.

I might cut the loads for the left barrel by a grain and dribble in a few more pellets to take up the room.

It's a 410 after all, and retained energy past 35 yards isn't important.

I think what was happening, John, is that I was squirrel aiming it, being extra careful to not be off right or left when it went bang. By doing so I was cheeking it a little harder than I will shooting at a bird. Next time I take it over to the plate I'll try just throwing it up and shooting when it hits my shoulder pocket. I'll bet it shoots a hair higher like that. That left barrel is hitting a little low and right, but not nearly as bad right as it was.

SRH