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Forums10
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Apr 29th, 2024
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 358 Likes: 23
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 358 Likes: 23 |
Gents, I have noticed any time this question comes up, W.&C. Scott & Son is hardly ever mentioned even though they built on an average 2000 handmade doubles PER Year from 1870 to 1935,and only a fraction of them had Scott's name applied to them, meaning they were built for every other maker in England. If you doubt their level of craftsmanship compares to the Big Four, check out the Imperial Premier that Champlin has for sale. Just one man's opinion. Sandlapper
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,478 Likes: 16
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,478 Likes: 16 |
Same three guns but in differing Current Condition: $21,000 H&H Royal with significent use (BV1-OQ1-CC3), $21,000 Lang with limited use (slight finish wear, little shooting) (BV2-OQ1-CC2), or $20,000 Midland in pristine condition (BV3-OQ1-CC1). Your decision point is now current condition. Which?
Questions?
So DDA, did the same mechanic who turned out the Pristine Midland also contribute effort to the H&H Royal? Cheers, Raimey rse Raimey, the short answer is no, or at least not after H&H open up their own factory. Before that, H&H bought in guns from various makers. During this period, they, like William Evans, provided the strict quality control. DDA From reading Dig Hadoke I believe that H&H continued to order guns from outside even after their factory opened. This was mainly in the lower grades, I think.
C Man
Life is short
Quit your job.
Turn off the TV.
Go outside and play.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,954 Likes: 12
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,954 Likes: 12 |
Most (Boss possible exception) gunmakers ordered in lower grade guns. Likewise, most used the services of outworkers as needed. All/most had a master gunmaker somewhere in the operation and he would know other makers with best work talent. A best work gun, no matter the source(s) will always be a best work of OQ1.
DDA
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,954 Likes: 12
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,954 Likes: 12 |
Gents, I have noticed any time this question comes up, W.&C. Scott & Son is hardly ever mentioned even though they built on an average 2000 handmade doubles PER Year from 1870 to 1935,and only a fraction of them had Scott's name applied to them, meaning they were built for every other maker in England. If you doubt their level of craftsmanship compares to the Big Four, check out the Imperial Premier that Champlin has for sale. Just one man's opinion. Sandlapper Very true and the same can be said for Midland. It was a trade with a spiderweb of interconnections. Quality cost money and makers knew how to get the required quality out the door with the highest margin. DDA
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,478 Likes: 16
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,478 Likes: 16 |
Boss made 'best guns only'. The lower grade guns that they retailed were labeled 'Robertson'. Before (and after) taking charge at Boss, Robertson was himself an outworker. I've seen a subgauge Atkin SLE 20 that was actioned by Robertson, identical to a Boss of that period and first sold in 1897, after Ronbertson had been running Boss for 5 years (I think he took over in 1892?).
C Man
Life is short
Quit your job.
Turn off the TV.
Go outside and play.
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 459 Likes: 12
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 459 Likes: 12 |
Always judge the gun, not the name.
There are some very fine guns with little known names, just as there are some quite 'ordinary' grade guns with 'top names' on them.
Quality is not the same as (monetary) value; Having a name such as Purdey, H&H, or Churchill on a boxlock will enhance value, but it will most likely have been made in Birmingham, and an identical quality gun from the same maker with a Birmingham name will cost less.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,954 Likes: 12
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,954 Likes: 12 |
Always judge the gun, not the name.
I suggest "judgement" of both as both factor into value of the gun.
There are some very fine guns with little known names, just as there are some quite 'ordinary' grade guns with 'top names' on them.
Very true and very important for paying correct prices for guns.
Quality is not the same as (monetary) value; Having a name such as Purdey, H&H, or Churchill on a boxlock will enhance value, but it will most likely have been made in Birmingham, and an identical quality gun from the same maker with a Birmingham name will cost less.
Very true and important to understanding how the market values guns.
Good stuff, John
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 17
Boxlock
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Boxlock
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 17 |
Im with you sandlapper. W&C Scott are right up there with the best and underrated. And William Powell who was sometimes referred to as the Purdey of the North. My own collection is largely built around Thomas Horsley who built guns as good as anything in London or Birmingham, but in one man's lifetime only up to about 1890.
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