doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Gauge reducing inserts

Certainly not trying to be contentious, with anyone. It just bugs me when I can't seem to be answer this. I must assume, for the choke to work at all, that upon setback the petals no longer contain the shot payload and it widens to bore size as it enters the "oversized" bore. Physics would suggest such. Certainly it cannot remain .410 bore size as it travels toward the muzzle. If that does occur, how does it exit the muzzle ....... in an orderly state with the wad behind the shot, or does it exit the muzzle with shot all around the shot cup? It is all just totally outside my realm of understanding how a device like this can deliver any semblance of consistency in patterns and performance.

The alloy Parker-Hale adapters (seen here in their 1962 catalogue) at 5 3/4” long or their steel Webley counterparts (at 5 1/2”) form a midway point between the chamber mate type adapter and the longer Savage Fourtenner adapters.

I remember reading an article* by Marshall Williams on trying out the Savage adapters and his expressing some surprise that the choke on the gun’s barrels still showed some influence on the patterns thrown down range by the .410 cartridges.

(* THAT ARTICLE CAN BE FOUND AT www.fourten.org.uk )

If I can find the time and a suitable place I hope to fire some .410 cartridges through a 30” .410 and also a 30” 12 bore (using the Webley adapter) to see how velocities compare as well as the patterns at 25 yards.

Stan, I understand your thoughts, I think. I think the shot is mostly contained in the wad. It must expand to mostly fit the bore and that has to have some pellets in direct contact with the bore. Most likely the shot becomes a shorter shot string in the bore, trading length for larger diameter. Perhaps the choke does have some influence on patterns even in this case. I just have not seen any major difference in how tight the carrier barrel chokes are and pattern performance. As a rule I never pattern a .410 with what I expect to have weak patterns. Plays too many games with my confidence when you see all those holes on paper with gaps here and there.

But there is no doubt that short tubes like Browning Super Tubes and even sidekicks like Briley makes can have serviceable patterns at reasonable ranges. I have not had as good luck with a straight chamber length adapters but they did work at shorter ranges. Breaks on station 4 were weak. Use a set on a good Sporting Clays range and you will quickly find that they are range limited. I have found anything past Skeet ranges just run out of dense enough patterns to be worthwhile and I would never use them on live game. A half ounce or even near 3/4 ounce shot is a very small payload for longer distance use.

I have had no issues at all shooting 10 gauge to 12 gauge Gauge Mate Silvers at Skeet and sporting using my 12 Gauge low pressure 7/8 oz vintager hand loads. They smoke even handicap trap targets if I do my job. The Gauge Mate Silver is just a chamber sleeve so 3 inches long maybe....
It makes life much easier and cheaper than loading 10 gauge target loads

[quote=Lawrence Kotchek]I have had no issues at all shooting 10 gauge to 12 gauge Gauge Mate Silvers at Skeet and sporting using my 12 Gauge low pressure 7/8 oz vintager hand loads. They smoke even handicap trap targets if I do my job. The Gauge Mate Silver is just a chamber sleeve so 3 inches long maybe....
I/quote]


Well yeah. A "2" gauge difference is nothing. With a .410 in a 12 ga., you're talking a "55" ga. difference (67 vs 12).
JR

Many years ago I had a set (25) of plastic chamber reducers. They were 20ga into 12ga. Just load them up with 20ga shells and put them in the shell bag. You could shoot.a.round of skeet or crazy quail just like you were shooting regular shells, they even worked in my wife's 870 skeet gun. It was nearly 50 years ago and I think they disappeared along with half the guns in the divorce.

When I shoot a 12 ga.. gun I expect some recoil. I shoot worse when I don't have it. When it's so easy to load what you need, for any gauge, I just do not see the attraction of shooting inserts. Maybe the day will come when I want a shotgun with "non-existent" recoil, but I'm a long ways from that, now. Prolly why I've never bought a set of gauge reducing inserts.

I can see a perceived advantage to having a carrier barrel set for sub-gauge tubes, but I did pretty decent in NSCA sub-gauge sporting using separate, dedicated guns in each gauge....... 20, 28 and .410. Shoot a practice round of five stand with each gauge gun before the registered event and muscle memory took over from there.

I was VP of GaugeMate and did most of the testing. I caused the adapters to be sent to Sherman Bell.
There's a video somewhere on the internet of me using the adapters.

As part of my research, I met with the fellow who was in charge of shot shell production for Federal
and asked him to explain the velocity issue.

If you have specific questions, I'll be glad to answer them.

Thanks, Steve. My most specific question is spelled out in an above post, but which I will reiterate in an attempt towards clarity. What becomes of the shotcup/shot relationship after it exits the GaugeMate, or other chamber length gauge reducing devices? As it goes down the bore, it would seem impossible for a 28 ga., or .410 bore, shot cup to seal the bore. And, how was the understanding of what physical shape that payload takes on arrived at?

Stan, my friend, it isn't NSCA, but in the first year of the Southern Side by Side, I won the .410 overall event with a little 20 gauge Parker equipped with Briley tubes. I think this is my biggest sporting clays win since I placed third overall in the Maryland State sporting clays shoot. I think in those days it was USSCA. I was younger then. Tubed guns were outlawed shortly after my .410 win at the Southern.