doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Simon says, Oh, never mind…

Yes, I think that’s how it’s going to be.
Plenty of estates have already adopted non lead cartridges. Plenty of evidence being sold off game carts.
Looks like they work just fine.
Not sure what the consensus is on high birds.

I was curious about this myself, so I did a little digging to see what I could learn. The best information I was able to find in one source was this article:

https://www.shootinguk.co.uk/reviews/ammunition/non-toxic-ammunition

Straight away, we see that Bioammo Blue shot is 25% less dense than lead. While softer than steel and a little less brittle than bismuth, it is still quite a bit harder and more brittle than lead. They are launching it at pretty high velocity to attempt to make up for it's ballistic shortcomings. I didn't find any reference to chamber pressure produced, so I'd assume it is near C.I.P. maximum until I knew for sure.

It was nice this review gave some pattern plate results. Thus far, I have had no use or need for non-lead ammo because I am not a waterfowl hunter. So as far as I'm concerned, this stuff is just another more costly and less effective product than lead.

If I pull into a Gas Station, and they are selling a new fuel that promises poorer performance, 25% less mileage, and costs considerably more, I'm moving my truck to a pump dispensing plain old gasoline. But that's just me.

While I agree that non-toxic, non-lead, whatever you want to call it is the future, it should be implemented voluntarily and gradual, not mandated by some city elected official who knows nothing about conservation and wildlife management, and wouldn't know which end of the barrels to put a cartridge in.

I don't know if the next generation of sxs, vintage gun shooters care about, or can even imagine this type of shooting. Strip away the unobtanium shoots for most, is there a solution to getting the new shooter over the ammo sticker shock, or is that a strategy for pushing new shooters out of the game.

We are seeing `death by a thousand cuts` being administered to shooting by organisations which have been stealthily infiltrated by anti shooting people over many years.
Each little victory that they achieve gives opportunity for further curtailment of the pastime and the countryside that we and many before have enjoyed .

I shoot a lot.
At multiple ranges across Mi.

It looks to me like the young have moved to waterfowling from the uplands.
They have never shot much lead.
I regularly hear of younger guns buying cases of steel, and splitting the case.

When visiting a clays ground in a metro area, if you see a younger person, they are of means typically.

So, I’m thinking that the soaring cost of participation has reduced younger participation in the clay sports in this region.

It may not be that way everywhere.

For reference, a non member line of skeet (25 targets) is $5.00, and a box of 20 gauge skeet loads is $10.99 around here.
So, $16.00/line.
That is a 300% increase over 15 years.

Weighing enjoyment/$, there are all kinds of alternatives available.

The science behind lead toxicity still escapes me. It all boils down to bioavailabilty, and "lead shot" (or even lead bullets) isn't a problem for anybody except a few eagles that were eating wounded geese back east. That's the wedge issue that started us done this ridiculous road, but no matter. New Federal rules are coming that will further restrict the use of lead as projectiles. Plan accordingly.

Stan: what non-toxic alternative are you referring to?

Bismuth, occasional KTM if you have some or happen upon it.
Pretty rare to see the light loads in either of those on the shelf anymore.

So you're okay with poisoning thousands of eagles, vultures, condors because you are inconvenienced by nontoxic shot? But you're even wrong about that - the lead ban was instituted because enormous numbers of waterfowl were dying after picking up lead shot from the bottom of ponds as grit in their gizzards. USFWS spend years doing endless studies on that mortality and the decision to ban lead was taken very reluctantly in the face of overwhelming evidence. Of course, there are those among us who label any data we don't like as 'junk science' if it suggests that we need to change old habits or tolerate an inconvenience merely to prevent needless wildlife death and promote conservation. Yes, steel shot causes more crippling but even that has improved greatly since it was introduced. I would much prefer to use lead rather than expensive bismuth in my old guns but not at the cost of causing great waterfowl mortality from starvation after ingested lead prevents them from digesting food. But that's just me.

Only 5 months since our last good lead blow up!
Maybe we could read through here and see if there is something new to say...and if not...don't
https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=627061

Or not. They all get locked eventually.