doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com E Smith and Sons, Birmingham

Sounds very similar to a rare Boss “self opener” system. Pretty rare mechanism. The answer lies with when you take off the lock plates and get a good look at the bar, you’ll be able to see the v-spring limb fitted into the bottom of the cocking limb/lifter providing the power for the self opening system.

A variation of the Edwin Smith easy opening system used on Churchill guns is also entirely possible. I mean the gun is, after all, an Edwin Smith gun!! Is it THE Edwin Smith though….the patentee of the easy opening system bearing the same name, or a different Edwin Smith? I dunno.

I could be way off too!!

The action and lockwork looks like both of my Birmingham SLE's, which I do not believe are true assisted opening actions, despite the fact that they open easily. The pin pattern on your gun is identical to the patterns on mine, which I believe is standard Holland patterned lockwork.

I suspect your locks look something like this on the inside:



Outside view with pin pattern:



Action:

The pin pattern on the locks will have very little if anything to do with the actual mechanism used to make the gun either a self opener or easy opener.
Pins located on the action body itself will tell more.

I have seen something similar, possibly a Churchill but dont hold me to that . The back work locks give a clue that there will be springs of some sort on the cocking dogs/ lifters .Need to remove the locks to see .

Seasons greetings to all ,
Graham .

Daryl,
When you describe the gun as self opening, are you describing what it does when the gun is held level but upright and the top lever pressed?
If it is a true self or easy opener the barrels should start to open of their own accord (without the assistance of gravity) when the gun is held level but on its side.

Seasons Greetings!

Dan S. W. your pretty gun does look very much like the E. Smith. Whose name is on your gun ? Frustrating for us all , I am sure, but I am not quite ready to remove the locks, fearing replacement problems with the "unknown".

Parabola, your question is helpful. The gun held level to the ground, but on its side, opens full when moving the top lever when not fired. The gun in the same position , after firing, does not open when moving the top lever.

In general, it is a very finely fitted gun with that certain smooth feel that some guns have when opening and closing. lVery nice wood and unusual engraving. I had not guessed the gun was made in the 1960s, I first saw the gun about 15 years ago in the hands of a now deceased friend. The dealer who bought the estate guns kindly sold it to me just recently. It is as I remembered it.

Daryl, the gun I showed pictures of above is a nominal Edgar Perks made in the forties. It has chopper lump barrels like yours as well. No idea who made that one.

The other similarly configured gun I own is a Leech & Sons made by G&S Holloway. I have the records and original catalog entry on that one. No reference to being a self opener in either. Here are a couple pics of the action and locks on that one. Like I said, similarly configured.

Dan S. W., thanks for the pictures. Both very pretty guns. Do you know if your guns are "on the light side" like the E. Smith ?

Daryl, both of mine are standard game weights closer to 6 3/4 pounds. Don't remember exact weights, but certainly not as light as yours.

Dan S. W. thanks for the weight info. I just measured the barrels on the E. Smith. The chopper lump barrels are 27 1/2" long. An unusual length. Chokes are .018 and .028 with still the original .729 " max bore diameter. Minimum wall thickness is .028". Stock lop is 14 5/8" over checkered butt, so the only visible item possible related to the light weight is the barrel length.