doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Alkanet Root - Reddish Stock Look

Everybody - great, great thread! Hansli - great, great job on the Berreta 426!

Hansli, I would appreciate it very much if you would describe the exact components, proportions and timing considerations of the "Salipian Finish" you used on the 426. I frankly cannot find the finish described in its entirety within the thread and want as rock solid a reference as possible so I can go about assembling my own batch. If you have suggestions on more modern, or "in-use" names for some of the substances that may be included, that would help a lot, too.

On a different note and, granted, not much work with Bethlen's products has been carried out yet, would you speculate on whether Bethen's Blood Red could be considered a substitute or replacement for Alkanet Root, or whether there are unique properties to each, making for each a a clear-cut niche? (I understand the advantage of Bethlen's analine die and its proprietary carrier penetrating Tru-Oil, etc.)

Next, what advantage did you see in applying two treatments of mehogany first, before applying Blood Red? If you were to come up to this step again, would you consider mixing mahogany and Blood Red together and then simply applying the mix until you achieved your sought color?

Last, how are you going to approach coloring newly cut checkering panels?

Would very much appreciate your help.

Have a question regarding stock preparation prior to finishing work. Dig, Salopian, Yeti, Yogi, Hansli and all others, how do you approach cleaning old oil stains up before getting on with the finishing? Do you use acetone bathws? Do any of you use some form of sealer on the cleaned wood before starting the finishing process - - this sealer's (eg. cut shellac), purpose being to block the future intrusion of oil again into the wood?

I use acetone to cleanse the wood and whitening to 'blot' up the oil.I seal inside the stock and the inletting with spar varnish.
But I think the most important thing to do to get a good finish is to fill the wood pores with you finishing medium/sanding slurry.Once this is done apply your oil a LITTLE but OFTEN.
DO NOT flood the surface with finish and let it sit until it is a gooey mess.No matter how many times I tell people not to do it, they still do.You only need a spot of oil as big as your thumb nail for each side of the stock and then spread it and rub it in.If your thumb nail is as big as a shovel wipe off the excess with paper towel and then burnish the remainder in.Set the stock aside in a warm climate for a day, then re-do.When you feel it is finished, apply a slurry of oil & rottenstone and polish to a finish.Then put it in the gun cabinet and never take it out to shoot because it will be too nice to mark.

1.Salopian's recipe:

16 0z. Boiled Linseed Oil
2 oz. best turpentine or (best you can find)
200 grains carnauba wax (I used flakes)
2 teaspoons of Venice Turpentine. This is available from horse/farrier's supply [url=http://www.farnamhorse.com/100174.html][/url]

Simmer ingredients for 30 minute over low heat. I filter mine through a nylon stocking to remove the carnauba grit.

2. For Alkanet tincture, I soak 4 oz powdered alkanet root (grind it in a blender) and add 12 oz grain alchohol (190 proof). I pour everything in an empty plastic bottle (soda or gatorade) and let stand in the sun for a day or two. Filter and you've got alkanet stain. Let most of the alchohol evaporate and add the concentrate to linseed oil and you have a nice alkanet oil. I prefer the alkanettincture to the blood red but only a little.I use blood red to fortify it or as a wash over the oil coats later, I think the alkanet give a more natural red as a start. You'll have to play around with it but you can't screw anything up too badly so don't worry.

3. Checkering is stained by priming with a coat of linseed. Let dry. Then some color to taste. Use a toothbrush and wipe with a piece of terry cloth between apps.

4. Observe whatever advice Salopian gives especially about finish application. This finish reqire rubbing out with a soft cotton cloth, tedious but it gives the depth and luster you seek.

5. For end grain seal I use polyurethane, tru oil or any stuff I have laying around that keeps water out. If it's raining(rare), I take my 870 and leave the good stuff home.

Salopian, have been working on grain filling with linseed oil and it doesn't seem to work. What grit of sand paper should I use to obtain a "good slurry"? I am now using 280. Is this too fine?

I know it is a basic question, but...

JC(AL)

Jaycee,
I use 400 grit to sand, but you may well have a very open pored piece of wood.
You could seal the wood using sanding sealer or spar varnish.Which is what I would do if time is of the essence.
You could also sand using oil and whiting (plaster of paris) but beware of using any fillers, they can cause more problems than they cure.Once you have achieved your closed grain proceed upto 600 or 800 grit wet & dry (silicon carbide paper).

Salopian, thank you.

Time is not of the essence, so I'll change to 400 grit and keep at it.

JC(AL)

I have been having fUn: I have been playing with the Behlen Blood Red and really like it. To my eye I prefer to fill the wood and get a dark 'base' like mahogony stain or even dark walnut. I must make sure the grain is filled at this point. The wet sanding and filling mnetioned by others is sound advice. And, also, I am looking at darkening the wood and bringing out the natural highlights and lowlights. This step of filling the grain and getting the dark brown/reddish brown BASE colour takes about a week.

Then I have been putting on anywhere from 4 to 8 coats of the Behlen Blood Red. I can get an idea of how it will look when it is 'wet'.

Then to my surprise I have found that Tung Oil, the high gloss grade, is really a nice finish. It gives me the OIL look we all talk about, yet it has a nice sheen. To my eye, I like this look the best so far of everything I have tried... Oh and the Tung Oil actually dries! All those projects I did with Linseed Oil left what I call an endlessly drying but never really dry stock.

The two projects I am nearly done with look like wood that is decades old, and the colour is classic. I want to put two more very thin layers of Tung Oil on. (Maybe more). I am only at 3 applications of the Tung Oil. Very thin each one was too. Although it looks good, I still want it to be a bit deeper on the final 'clear/amberish' final coat.

Also, I sand with 600 to 1000x. I think 280 to 400 is too coarse and you will see scratches, I'm afraid. Even if you use 400 for the hevay work, I recommend a once over with 600-1000, or the finest scotchbrite or even steel wool. Make sure you clean, vacuum, clean white cloth rub the wood off after steel wool. It leaves alot of metal fibers that can ruin a finish.

Wow, I feel like I have gotten to a new level in refinishing the wood. I don't know why I stayed away from Tung Oil all this time. So many Linseed Oil advocates I guess. I just never could get mine to dry as well as the Tung Oil. And the shine, the gloss is rich and not too thick and "cheap" or too modern looking looking like any polyurethane or urethane product that I have tried... so far.

Yogi, I found Minwax Tung Oil locally (also their stains), but I have the impression it is not PURE tung oil and has driers added. Is this the one you are using, or something similar?, and what do you use to apply it?

JC(AL)

P.S.: Considering all the things I don't know I could keep this thread going on forever
[provideed I get the answers, :-)].

What does the Venice turps in the Shropshire lad's recipe? Does the carnauba something that beeswax won't?

jack