doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Late vintage Tobin?

I just ran across what appears to be a late vintage Tobin -- marked "Tobin Arms Mfg Co/Woodstock, Ont. Canada". 12 gauge, 30" barrels. Bores very clean, slight dimple in one barrel. Wide matted rib. Not rust or pitting. Case hardening is bright inside the forearm but nowhere else. Hard to tell, but it might have the black "oxypyro" finish on locks and barrels. Wood pretty well worn but intact. Serial number in the 19,xxx range suggesting it's a Crandall gun. Until I read the posts about Tobins here, I never heard of the make. I have an Elsie and a Lefever, so the sideplates caught my eye. The tag on this one is around $250. Worth pursuing?

Only if you are into obscure Americana, and don't mind the trouble of using lower pressure stuff.
The number of Tobins I have seen that are off the face is way out of proportion to other guns of similar age. I suspect the design may be more prone to this due to the material removed from the frame to house the lockwork-the sideplates only mount the sears and sear springs, hence, the gun has more in common with a boxlock than a true sidelock. The off the face condition is more apt to be a bent frame than wear to the lump or knuckle, and, I supect modern, hot loads used in an old gun are usually to blame.
I wouldn't sell my restocked 16 for less than I have in it, but, I decided long ago not to impose any durability tests on it. Low pressure 2 1/2" English stuff is all it gets now. Pretty nice weather only.
If there are case colors in protected areas, the gun was case colored.
Best,
Ted

Thanks, Ted. The lockplates were a very deep blue-black, but the marks and light engraving were crisp and didn't appear polished out or buffed. It didn't look like a reblue to me, and I've seen a few. The dog's head engraved on the sideplate, though, was probably the most ill-formed hound I've ever seen. The frame was dull bright (does that make sense?) with no trace of color, but not polished. The barrels had just a trace of movement when I shook the gun off my hip, and my guess was that if it had been fired a lot it had also been well cared for. Any other thoughts on a Tobin like this would be appreciated before I go back for a second look.

I don't pretend to know anything about Tobins, and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn last night either. But I bought a Tobin at the Tulsa gun show 3 or 4 years ago and asked about it here. Mine is a Norwich Conn mfg 12 ga, with Trojan Nitro Steel stamped on both bbls. Serial # is 84XX, and the side plates are blue/black. I thought they had probably been blued, but was told by the board here that it is a Black Beauty model, and supposed to be black. Ain't this place great?

Pretty sure you meant to say "Black Diamond" grade. Black Beauty is a Baker gun.
Some of the Shapleigh hardware Tobin guns were called "Blue Diamond" guns, and had blued frames. I don't know how much difference there was between the blue finish and the black "Pyro oxidized" Tobin finish.
My 16 is case colored, and marked "Tournament". Someday, we might know who the Tournament guns were built for.
$250 is a parts gun price, and a cheap repair can be had at Mike Orlen's shop, but, I wouldn't put too much money into it. I'd also look for a different gun that wasn't loose.
Best,
Ted

Ted, you must see all the poor condition Tobins. Most I've seen and recorded are in pretty good shape for their age. What has impressed me about them is I sure don't see the cracked stocks I do on L.C. Smiths. I'd say $250 is a deal for most any old double in any kind of reasonable condition.

This is a Black Diamond from Norwich --

I've seen a cracked stock or two on Tobins, but, I wish I had a dollar for every 'Smith I'd ever seen with a cracked stock!

I'd buy the gun thats for sale, here, on the for sale board!

The above looks identicle to a 12 I had Mike put a shim on. The gun has been used pretty regularly by a good friend, who, still considers me a friend, so, it was a pretty good deal, I guess.

It seems our poster detected a bit of looseness in his example.....
Best,
Ted

Mine looks just like the one in Researcher's picture.
After I posted it as Black Beauty I got to wondering if it should have been Black Diamond. Now if I can just remember it til next time.

I took a closer look at the Tobin today. The serial number is 1936x, making it one of the very last. Barrels, frame and sideplates are all the deep blue-black and do not appear refinished. Is there a way to tell whether these late Tobins qualify as Black Diamond or Blue Diamond models? The barrels have no maker's mark or anything else, no chamber lengths or proof marks whatsoever. Screwheads are all clean and neat. There's a hairline crack behind the lock, the bottom rib is a bit loose and will need resoldering, but all in all not bad for the money and the wood will make an interesting project.

Now to the real issue: I'm a Virginian traveling in The Republik of Kalifornica. Last summer in North Carolina I walked away with a nice Lefever on the strength of a VA driver's license and a valid CC permit. No such luck here, even with a 75 year old long gun. If I decide to get it, I'll have to ship the Tobin back to my gun club shop. Hmmmmm....

Your gun is the Tobin Black Diamond Grade #55, which in their Canadian catalogue of 1911 was priced at $35,or $55 with single trigger and auto ejectors. Because your gun is marked G.B.Crandall the gun was made after 1922. At this time,Mr, Crandall took over the business.He built a limited number of guns from the inventory of parts remaining from the defunct Tobin Arms Company.
The Tobin factory still exists in Woodstock but sadly selling domestic light fittings rather than shot guns.I have seen Tobin guns sold in the price range of $200-1750. High grade guns are seldom seen. $250-300 would seem appropriate for your gun.