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What happens if a snow goose dies from picking up some #6 shot fired at a chukar? Are snow geese endangered? Could that same goose have been killed by being shot by the the same chukar hunter during goose season using Bismuth? What would be the difference in the world?
WMA is an acronym "Wildlife Management Area". The fact that some upland hunting areas have playa lakes, streams, and ponds used by waterfowl doesn't make a lead shot ban logical or necessary
Best,
Mike
Last edited by AmarilloMike; 01/28/10 05:09 PM.
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"What happens if a snow goose dies from picking up some #6 shot fired at a chukar? Are snow geese endangered? Could that same goose have been killed by being shot by the the same chukar hunter during goose season using Bismuth? What would be the difference in the world?"
Are Snow Geese the only waterfowl that picks up spent shot ?
"WMA is an acronym "Wildlife Management Area"."
Where I hunt WMA stands for Waterfowl Management Area , areas that are managed for other wildlife are known as F&WA's (fish and wildlife areas). Thats why I asked what it stood for , it can mean different things in different states .
I don't care for steel shot any more than most of you do . But I do understand the need for it in certain areas .
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So any area that might have wildfowl on it needs to be designated lead free. That would cover just about the entire country. Ducks and geese are in the wheat fields, the corn stubble, around the playa lakes where I hunt pheasant. In the rivers, creeks, and ponds on my Bobwhite leases. They are everywhere I hunt and all I hunt is upland.
I don't believe the upland hunting lead shot that winds up in the wildfowl waters is a signifigant killer of wildfowl. It pales in comparison to weather, predation, loss of habitat.
Best,
Mike
Last edited by AmarilloMike; 01/28/10 08:25 PM.
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"So any area that might have wildfowl on it needs to be designated lead free."
I don't think that is what they are saying , I feel they are asking that any area that is managed for waterfowl needs to be non-toxic shot only.
"I don't believe the upland hunting lead shot that winds up in the wildfowl waters is a signifigant killer of wildfowl."
I am not trying to be a smart a++ here , but this is not a case of what any of us THINK . It's a case of what the numerious lead poisoning studies have shown . Lead shot is lead shot , it doesn't matter if it came from a waterfowl load or a upland load .
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I think we are doing a pretty good job of disagreeing agreeably.
So are you taking the position that any amount of lead shot in the wildfowl water is enough to ban lead shot from the area. Suppose it works out to 100 pellets of #6 per ten acres?
Certainly the wildfowl studies that have been done about wildfowl ingestion of lead were based on the lead coming from wildfowl hunters.
And what about the wildfowl in the corn stubble and eating the winter wheat. Are the upland pheasant hunters going to have to stop using lead there.
And I hunt along rivers, ponds, and creeks that have wildfowl and certainly some of the 6s, 7-1/2s and eight lead pellets I have shot at Bobs and pheasant have gone into those waters.
Because the logical conclusion to what you are advocating leads to banning of lead shot everywhere. And if the feds can ban lead shot when hunting ducks on private waters they can ban lead shot on private land used by interstate ducks.
Best,
Mike
Last edited by AmarilloMike; 01/28/10 09:20 PM.
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The link below shows all the WMA's (Wildlife Management Areas)located within the state of Idaho. I'm not too sure about some located in the central and southern regions of the state, but some of those listed in the north probably have more spent lead rifle bullets laying around the woods than shot! I suspect the same for some in the the central region WMA's. One of them was a favorite area for deer and elk hunting in my youth, and is virtually devoid of waterfowl, due to the mountainous and timbered terrain. Which leaves the question-should bullets, or will bullets constructed with lead be banned as well? http://fishandgame.idaho.gov/cms/wildlife/wma/
Last edited by Cameron; 01/28/10 10:30 PM.
Cameron Hughes
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Oldman, you are wrong that WMA means Waterfowl Management Area in Idaho. Some WMAs have little or no water. They are Wildlife Management Areas. Does that definition change your views any ?
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I asked what WMA ment in Idaho . IN some states it means Waterfowl Management Area , in others it does not. From my understanding of the studies that have been done , if a area is managed for waterfowl that area should be a no-tox shot shell area . I do not think that any studies have shown any lead posion effects on upland birds . So if there are no waterfowl in that area why would a lead ban be needed ?
"Because the logical conclusion to what you are advocating leads to banning of lead shot everywhere. And if the feds can ban lead shot when hunting ducks on private waters they can ban lead shot on private land used by interstate ducks."
I'm not advocating anything . Simply stateing what many studies have shown . Lead shot has allready been banned nation wide when hunting waterfowl, doesn't matter if it is on private or public land/water.
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Does the "W" in WMA stand for waterfowl or wildlife ? If it stands for waterfowl then non-toxic should be the standard rule . If it stands for wildlife then it should depend on the amount of waterfowl that use the area . Ask yourself this - Do waterfowl only pick up shot that is used for waterfowl hunting ? I don't think they can tell the difference . So applying your rule to my Bobwhite lease that has the Salt Fork of the Red River, ponds, and Mulberry creek, all of which at times have wildfowl on them do you think that any upland hunting should be required to be done with non-toxic shot? What about pheasant hunting around playa lakes where the ducks and geese swarm at times? Do you believe that the pheasant hunters should be banned from using lead shot? Are you saying there should be zero tolerance of lead shot in waterfowl waters? Best, Mike
Last edited by AmarilloMike; 01/28/10 10:41 PM.
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How many bobwhite quail hunters do you imagine have swallowed a few pellets of shot over their lifetime? Has there ever been a documented case of any of us dying from it? I doubt it. ????? I think the question is in regards to a lead shot ban on WMA's. Do you believe that lead shot ingestion has no effect on waterfowl ? I'll gladly answer this one. No, not nearly to the effect that many have been convinced it does.
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