doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com 1922 or 1946 Elsie?

He says Thad Scott told him it was a 1922 but there is an S before the serial number but no FW and it looks like it has the high rib a 1946 would have.

What do you think?

http://v2.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=166513539

Looks old to me. I agree with Thad.

The "S" stamp was only used by Hunter Arms in two instances; separately from the serial number to denote the word "Specialty", as in "Specialty Grade"; and in conjunction with a serial number to denote Marlin era production (1945-1950). Since this is obviously a Field Grade, the use of the letter stamp "S" to denote a Specialty Grade would not apply. As to the serial number, the "FW" serial number prefix was never stamped on the barrels, just the water table of the frame (as in "FWSxxxxx); and from the shape of the lockplate and location of lockplate screws we know this is obviously a Featherweight or FW frame. It is impossible for me to ascertain from the photos, but if this gun does indeed have the high "single sighting plane" rib feature, that feature was first cataloged by Hunter Arms in 1938 meaning that this would definately be a later gun (Marlin retained that feature after acquisition of the gunworks), and the serial number would indicate a Marlin era gun as Marlin began their serial number series at "FWS 1". Have the dealer forward a picture of the watertable with a ledgible serial number view; having that number complete ends any further production period confusion. I also noticed that the barrel flats have a chambers stamp. Only a portion of that stamp is visible, so I can't make out the chamber length; but with the exception of 3" chamber stamps, Hunter Arms seldom stamped a gun with the chamber length. On the other hand, it is not uncommon to see chamber length stamps on Marlin era guns. Again, get the full serial number off the frame and you will have your answer.

The proof marks are the type used by Hunter Arms, so I would suggest it's old, but 1923, not 1922.

I believe Hunter employees with Hunter tooling still made the guns until 1950 even though owned by Marlin.
1950 I believe is when one floor on the old Hunter building collapsed and production ceased.

The milling machine floor actually collasped into the canal in 1949 (February, 1949 I recall; I'm too lazy to check my references at the moment); but guns continued to be produced from parts on hand into 1950, when Marlin elected not to spend the funds necessary to repair/replace damaged machinery and permanently closed the gunworks.

In lightening up a few of the pictures with the information given on the gun, I would say that it is a 1949 era gun. It does have the raised rib, a standard feature then. For a 12 ga gun to have CHAMBERS stamped on it would be something you would see on a 16 ga when it was changed to 2 3/4". Since the 12 ga gun always had 2 3/4" chambers, and I've never seen a 3" chambered FW gun, I don't know why it would have that stamp on it. Also most of the chamber stamping is on the other barrel flat.
I too would like to see what else is written there.
Another good indication of age if the lack of definition around the side plates, there are no raised cheeks surrounding the side locks like there was in the 20's era guns.

David,

FYI, I own a Speciality Grade FW with "Chambers 3 Inches" staped on the water table.

Mark

I just took a guess at 1946, but I have noticed later Elsies didn't have the raised cheeks. Before I know much about Elsies, I used to suspect a stock replacement. My 1902,21 and 26 all have raised cheeks.

Mark, that is the first one I have heard of. It would be interesting to know if that was special ordered that way.
The one thing about "elsies", you never say never.