doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Stopping Surface Pitting on Damascus

So you've got an old double with damascus barrels. In a few spots the browning has silvered, and there's a spattering of black dots. Running your finger over the areas you find they are smooth to the touch. So they haven't yet graduated to full-fledged pits. Will simply keeping a light coat of oil over them stop them from going deeper? Would re-browning the tubes help retard the damage?

Yes to the first part of your question, a light coat of oil will help retard the rusting.
No to the second question. The only way to stop the pitting would be to sand the pits out. Unless the barrels had a lot of wall thickness, leave them alone.

If the areas are as you described, light sanding should remove them, but then the barrels will have to be re-rusted/etched.

Re-rusting barrels with pits will only get the rust into the pitted area again.
Stay with the oil.

I use 0000 steel wool and oil to take light rust and crud off.
it also helps bring the pattern out better

Many Thanks to the both of you. Should the o il I use be a light machine oil, or will a heavier "gun oil" be ok?

The barrels need to be coated with a varnish. Galazan sells some. http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=389304
I have used it and do not care for it, as it has hue to my eyes.

You can also use Tru-Oil. I believe Dr. Gaddy had a favourite that he used, Behlen's varnish.

Pete

I have had very good luck using a product called Nu Finish. It is a polymer metal finish designed to seal the finish on automobiles but works equally well on blacked/browned/color cased metal finishes. As long as you are keeping oxygen away from the metal you will not have further oxidation (rust). One application will last a long long time and it brings enhances the contrast of the pattern on faded damascus barrels. If your are not happy with the results it is easily removed with a wipe down of acetone or carburetor cleaner.

TwiceB - Shouldn't the barrels be re-browned before applying the stuff you mention? They're only showing on worn, "silvered" spots (4 or 5).

Many time it is not necessary to re-brown the entire barrel set when using the Nu Finish. The chemicals in the polish react differently with the steel and with the iron ribbons. which brings back the pattern after the original surface oxidation (browning) has been buffed off while removing the rust. The Nu Finish treatment also works great on any firearm to protect the finish from rain, mud and snow.

I would suspect that you could use Laural Mountain of Pilkingtons rust blue on spots but by the time you go through all the preparation, rusting, boiling and carding you might as well re-do the entire barrels.

Some folks use diluted etching solution from Radio Shack to "knock back" excess browning. I have 3 sets of wall hanger damascus barrels I experiment on.
I had some spots develop on one set and tried Bar Keepers Friend (available in most grocery stores). It is mostly Oxalic acid and much milder than etching solution. I just made a wet paste and rubbed it on with 0000 steel wool. I continued to rub with the wet steel wool until the spots were gone. It was less than 15 minutes of work.
I rinsed the barrels with hot water, dried and oiled. I have been watching them for 3 weeks now and they are still looking good.

Joe

Thanks, guys - I'm going to try to dig up some NU FINISH at Pep Boys or some other car joint. It sounds promising. TwiceB - Do you use the NU FINISH with 0000 steel or bronze wool, or do you apply it AFTER you've rubbed the rusted spots away?

And Joe, that Bar Keeper's Friend is another odd find. Amazing that it should work as well as you say, but what do I know from one chemical to the next. You said I could find it in grocery stores - what section?

Drew - Thanks for the links. I'd saved the second one quite awhile back, but the first was new to me and full of surprises as well.

If the patena is just a stain you can seal it with the Nu Finish if you like which will stabalize the stain and prevent further oxidation. If the oxidation is starting to work into the finish and create pits you can remove the "crusty" oxidation with bronze wool and then apply the Nu Finish.

As I remember the last time I bought Nu Finish I found it at O'Riley's auto parts store but Pep Boys should carry it also.

Good luck

I've noticed after cleaning rusty old guns with 0000 steel wool and oil that if I spray the "cleaned" metal with WD-40 or CRC or other penetrating/polarizing type oils, a lot more rust is loosened up. I have read that you should avoid these types of oils when first oiling a new rust blue or brown because they may remove some of the fresh black or brown oxides you worked so hard to get. Also, over the years I have read numerous tests of gun oils where they would degrease nails or steel strips and then test various oils. RIG gun grease always scored high in long term corrosion protection and it has performed very well for me. Since it seems you don't actually have any pitting, you have very little to worry about as long as it is cleaned and stored properly.

Yes Keith, what I'm dealing with is more of a "staining" nature. Like a splatterinfg of blackish dots on a silvered section of the browned damascus. They're smooth to the touch, no sign of "eating away" - the bores look wonderful, no pitting or staining of any kind. There is one exception and I can't remember if I mentioned it. the very edge of the left barrel has a rough spot, about 3/8" where I'd have to say is pitting. I don't know if this will affect the shot coming out or not. I suppose I could work up the courage to try to "sand" it away with some fine steel wool or bronze wool and oil. Haven't had much luck finding fine bronze wool, or any bronze wool to speak of, so I may be backed into a corner and have to use 0000 steel wool. Checked Lowes, no-go. Suggestions for this prescious material?

TwiceB - I got a bottle of Nu Finish at Pep Boys earlier this evening; it felt like a great "score"! More and more I'm warming to the idea of just keeping the spots in check so they don't turn the corner and become bonafide pits. The aesthetic issues can be addressed at a later time.

The thing that was dogging me before is the fact that, yes, it is a Purdey, and so much of it is soooo beautiful I felt it a sin to not have the barrels look their best. I mean that's how good condition most of the gun is. Re-browned barrels would NOT stick out in the least. But the longer I have the gun, the more I want to just take care of things in accord with basic needs so I don't have to worry about deteriation and concentrate more on working up loads for the damn thing, which I thnk most if not all of you have been driving at all along.

Boy, I sure get long-winded when the evening plunges into night. I'll stop now by giving thanks to all of you who've offered sound advice and help. Good night - Marc

Check with some of the fine woodworking places, like Garrett Wade, Woodworker's Supply, Rockler, or Constantine's. Guys who work with oak do not use steel wool because the residue reacts with the tannins and stains the wood, so the woodworking places are more likely to have other products.

As an alternative, you can try one of the small stainless steel cleaning pads from the hardware or grocery store. Recommended by Ivory Beads for cleaning up fine guns without surface damage. I use them and they work. Use oil with the pad.

If the rusting is 'live' it could be the result of salts in the pores of the metal which have never been neutralised.

As a matter of course, I ALWAYS soak my newly browned or blacked barrels in a weak solution of sodium hydroxide in distilled or rain water - about 1oz in 12 litres warmed to about 70 deg C. If this is not done one can get 'after-rusting' as described in Angier's book.

I am not suggesting that these rust spots are classic 'after-rusting' but the treatment might be useful in your circumstances, providing the surface is carefully degreased.

As long as you ensure that the solution is not allowed to exceed 80 deg C (or it may black brown damascus and turn blacking fox red if there are any carbonates in the solution), your ribs are sound and you dry off the inside and out of your tubes afterwards and apply a good quality oil coating, I can not see it doing any harm and it should stop any further rusting.

I do as Toby has suggested and it kills it dead after I had after rusting on some Damascus barrels. Works a treat and as suggested good oiling afterwards and it's halted all of mine..

T

Again, many thanks for all the ideas/suggestions/game plans contributed.