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Forums10
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Mar 29th, 2024
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
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I have en route a cased 14 bore percussion double (with a lot of nice accessories!) made by this gent. This was definitely a case of "buy the gun and not the name" because I NEVER heard of the guy. What's more I could find next to nothing about him. Boothroyd never mentioned him once in 5 of his books. The all-powerful world wide web told me next to nothing: he was from Birmingham and supplied the Pacific Northwest USA with a lot of trade guns to barter with the Indians. Interesting, but only a sidebar item. I'd like to know more; of the man, of his guns and of his firm. Can anybody provide more info? Does anybody actually own one of his guns?
Another interesting note: Spelled out on the rib of the barrels are the words LONDON SILVER STEEL. I couldn't find ANY reference to that label for damascus barrels, and I've seen a pretty good number on obscure guns. Anybody familiar with this label? I don't know why but my gut told me they're probably Belgian made. Make any sense?
I'd be very grateful for ANY contribution on this/these topic(s)
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
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All I have is that he was British maker with offices in New York. He had a warehouse on Bead Street in Birmingham. I also found this: William Chance, a merchant of Birmingham England 1777-1780 became Chance & Homer, then William Chance & Sons 1812-1821. He sold guns marked London. William Chance the 2nd, son of William, 2 Coleman Street Bldgs. London 1829-1842 became William Chance Son & Co. 1842-1856; then William Chance & Co. 1858. You might try asking at AntiqueGuns: http://www.antiqueguns.com/phorum/Pete
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
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WW Greener describes Silver Steel in his book The Gun, 1834, p.46
Geno.
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
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Many Thanks to Pete and Geno! Very good information and leads.
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
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Geno - I can find NO mention of London Silver Steel on page 46 of Greener's THE GUN.
I have the ninth edition. Page 46 talks about 14th century hand cannons, etc.
Maybe a translation "glitsch"? I think I'm going to open it up to the board to see if some of the Damascus researchers know anything.
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
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Silver steel Damascus is reviewed on page 235 of W.W.Greeners book,"The Gun"!According to Greener,Siver Steel Damascus is manufactured in a similar manner to other types of damascus,excepting that it uses different metals, piled in a different order.I suspect that one of the metals used has a higher pecentage of carbon than that utilized in other types of damascus.I recall seeing barrels marked,Silver Steel Damascus and that the barrel did have silver sheen. This would seem to indicate that steel with a higher carbon level was an ingredient in the barrel material.
For the record, Silver steel used in the U.K.was/is a medium carbon steel usually sold as ground bar stock.It is often used in the tooling industry for applications such as location pins and dowels.Could this be a name picked by industry from the gun makers metal of old?
Roy Hebbes
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
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Roy, you certainly make a good case for it. I'll bet you're absolutely right on the money.
Thank you also for the information and Greener reference, which I'll be looking up in a few minutes. Geno was correct about its inclusion in Greener's THE GUN, but the page number was way off. It must have been a translated copy, maybe abridged?
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
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Don't let me go wrong, but The Gun of 1834 I mentioned was the 1-st edition, but you have the 9-th edition.
You could load e-version of Greener 1834 book from Google and find Silver Steel on p.46
Geno.
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
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Well, we seem to have 2 threads discussing this "Silver Steel" term. Here is a quote from Smallbore per his book, I moved the section on Silver Steel up: Gun Notes
Damascus Terminology
Prior to the development (in the 1880s) of the technology to produce steel barrel tubes in one piece, barrels had been made by a process of hammer welding different grades of iron and steel around a mandrel. The resulting, figured, barrels are generally referred to as ‘Damascus’ by modern writers. However, ‘Damascus’ barrels were made in a wide variety of grades and the manufacturing process varied accordingly. Here are some common terms encountered when reading contemporary writers, about types of Damascus barrel and what they refer to:
English Steel Damascus
This was composed of steel and iron in six-parts-to-four proportions. Tubes made with higher steel content, usually eight-parts to two-and-a-half of iron were termed ‘Silver Steel Damascus’. In either case, the best barrels used three or more twisted rods of metal and were well figured and tough.
Laminated Steel
This was made from best quality steel scrap mixed with some charcoal iron and worked under a forge hammer repeatedly until the close and even grain desired was achieved. The metal was then rolled out and shaped into a tube in the conventional manner. Greener praised the practical, hardwearing qualities of laminated steel. Unfortunately, from an aesthetic viewpoint, it lacked the intricate pattern of other forms of Damascus barrel.
Stub Damascus
This was usually made by heating old files, quenching the red-hot metal to make it brittle and then pounding it into very small pieces. This was added to a quantity of nail stubs from horse-shoe nails. The mixture was heated in a furnace to fuse the component parts. The metal was then hammered into rods and twisted and welded into tubes in the usual manner.
Skelp
This was a cheap variety of barrel material also referred to as ‘Twopenny’ or ‘Wednesbury Skelp’. The iron used was of lower quality scrap but if well forged and hammered could be serviceable. Skelp tubes were not used for good quality guns.
Sham Dam
A poor quality steel barrel was formed by welding along the length and then wrapping a thin Damascus layer over the top to deceive the buyer (or gunmaker) into believing the barrel to be a higher quality one of Damascus construction.
Pointille Twist
This type of Belgian tube was very well figured and free from ‘greys’ and became popular with some British gun makers in the1880s. It looked attractive but lacked the toughness of British Laminated Steel. Remember he is talking only about English terminology. Regarding "Silver Steel". There is a physical limit for the steel content and a set of barrels to be able to show a pattern. He seems to be suggesting that silver steel is about 70%-75% steel. In the Belgian literature the figure of 60% steel is often quoted. I do not know of any source that shows the differences between the various steel levels and it's impact on the displayed pattern. I have seen examples of specific patterns that seem closer to 50/50. Here is an example.  A clear picture of a "Silver Steel" barrel would be helpful at this point. Pete
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
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Many Thanks, Geno - I figured it was something like that: either a translated copy or a different edition. (I've been here a long time, I've learned I would never think you made a mistake!)
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