doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Getting older, the 20 gauge option.

Now that I am facing the begining of last shooting years (57),I have been thinking of the 20 gauge more and more.
I was going to put together a Model 21 12 gauge for clay and some dove shooting but the thought has been coming to me latly that the older I get will the heavy 12's bog me down? To much recoil?
So I have been kicking around getting more 20's. So I might would stock me up a Model 21 20 gauge instead.
What do most of you guys think of the 20 gauge? I will say that all my clay shooting is not in tournaments and just fun shoots with the guys? So would you feel bad about competing against 12's on a weekliy basis? Would you feel under guned in the dove field with a 20 rather than a 12?

I love the 20g. I have quite a few of them. A 30" M21, at about 7 lbs would be a really nice clays gun. For the field, I like a 20g around 6 1/4 lbs.

20g is just as cheap, if not cheaper to shoot as 12g. It'll knock any upland bird out of the sky with authority, given the right load. For dove, it's more than enough, IMO. I started shooting a 20g with my buddies in weekly rounds of clays and fun shoots about 6-8 yrs ago. At first I thought I was handicapped. Not for long though. After a little while, I didn't even think of the guage difference. When I shoot clays now, I use mostly a 20 with some periodic 410 shooting. Some of my best clays scores were with a 20g. Try it for a while, you'll probably never go back to a 12g.

I am now 62 and use the 12 or 20 for duck hunting (in a blind, sitting).
the 20 or 28 for pheasants
the 28 or 410 for quail with dogs.
The 20 gauge is usually equal to 12 gauge in registered skeet.
So for fun shooting and other than crane and goose hunting, you should be in a fine position
Mike

I have 10 years on you, and find myself more and more going to light guns. I have some nice, but heavy doubles, and had a Sporting gun built on a 20 ga BSS chassis. Heavy enough to soak up recoil, but not too heavy to shoot a lot. Sweet gun for an older shooter. For hunting, I decided carrying was more important than firing and went to a 5 pound, 10 oz. SKB Model 100. Had my best year in a long time on Grouse and woodcock with it. (Yes, I still miss some, but that is one of the reasons I love Grouse hunting, they are tough to harvest.)

Basically, I think not enough people are hip to the fact that the 12 gauge(double)is THE most versatile shotgun in the world.

Add to that the fact that everybody who shoots likes more than one gun and the more differences the better. Chances are their main shotgun(s) been a 12 bore. They get a little dough and/or see something they tell themselves they can't live without and the chase is on! The smaller gauges can be seen as cooler, sexier and on and on.

Hey, I love them ALL. But my main bird hunters are classic, light (6 1/2 lb) vintage 12 bore doubles.

i now use my 28 ga. sxs for quail and doves. ive pretty much retired my 12s. then again im 76.

Mike, as to your other post, it seems it is up and down on the 12 ga.

As for smaller bored guns, I always had a liking for them. I only owned one 12 ga gun that I still have and I got when I was 15 years old. I started collecting L.C. Smiths, I like the pre-1913 ones, and naturally the 16 ga and 20 ga are hard to come by, but I do have a few.

I shoot sporting clays with some of the "elsies" but I shoot light loads through them. The load I was using called for 1 oz. of shot, but my Mec bars throw light and it is actually closer to 15/16 oz. of shot, so it is a little heavier than the 7/8 oz load of a 20 ga. As for the weight of the guns, some weight a little over 7 lbs. which isn't bad, and one Grade 2E grade with 32" barrels is 9 lbs.
A few of my non "elsies" 20 ga. weigh a little over 6 lbs. and I do have a 12 ga. Greener c.1892 with 27 1/8" barrels that weighs 6 lbs even. I also like shooting a FN 16 ga. with 30" barrels that weighs 6 lbs. 2 ozs. The difference is about a pound and I don't mind carrying it hunting and I will be 65 in May, good Lord willing.

I think I'd rather shoot a lighter (Say about 6 1/4lb) & perhaps 2" shorter barreled (28") 12 bore...with lighter loads(7/8oz) & a tad fewer fps in my feeble years
franc

For years now, I've been looking for 20 ga. Nitro Specs. They are hard to find, and the last one I bought was $275 and marked M&W Western Field. Am completely happy with my CZ Bobwhite 28 Ga. If I make it to warmer weather I'll be 75, and have so far cheated the Grim Reaper 5 times. I love you guys. Chops

If I live long enough to become crotchety ole' man I will pick up "Babeee" Bretton and roll 7/8 and 1oz lower velocity loads for it. Yes, I will buy weird French shotgun before I give up on my beloved 12br.

Mike, anyone who feels undergunned in a dove field with a 20 is badly mistaken. There's not many things that I feel I know a lot about, but dove shooting is one of them. I farm and grow several crops that attract doves, and we shoot them a lot. I'm 59, and celebrated 50 years of dove shooting last year, growing up on Grandaddy's farm shooting doves and quail. I started out as a kid with a Rem. 11, 20 ga., went the 12 ga. route for many years, and for the last 8 seasons haven't even touched a 12 for doves. As a matter of fact, for 98% of dove shooting 7/8 oz. loads is aplenty. I have a Beretta 687 SP II Sporting that has killed nearly 8000 doves here and abroad in the last 8 years. I have a group of friends that get together with me each year for doves. We shoot a lot. They have been amazed for awhile now at the effectiveness of a 20 on doves. An IM choke with 7/8 oz. of 7 1/2s will kill a dove dishrag dead so far out that it still amazes me sometimes. I kill doves regularly out to 60 yards, occasionally out beyond 75. Not wounded, killed dead in the air. Not just a golden BB in the head either.

As to sporting clays, I compete regularly during the spring and summer. Though I use a 12 for the main events, my regular shooting buddy tells me that I ought to use the 687 with 1 oz. loads in the main events. It is very effective.

If you take a leap of faith and get a really good 20 that fits you, that you can choke to suit the situation, you should never feel undergunned. I certainly don't. OTOH, I DO NOT consider it a true duck gun for anything other than teal or beaver pond woodies.

Stan

Although personally a staunch 12 bore deliever, I often shoot clays with a fellow who is a dedicated goose hunter, killing a lot of geese with steel shot through a 20. I haven't hunted with him, so I don't know all the details, but he is not an expert shot, usually scoring nearly as badly as I do at sporting clays. For some reason, he uses a 12 for clays.

I'm very much entrenched in the use of the 16 ga. I have a Rem 1900 12 ga my father gave me years ago and a Rem model 11 12 ga that was given to me, which I use for trap now and again.

A good friend of mine uses an old 870 20 ga he bought new in the early 70's, for everything. He, generally being a better shot than I, couldn't keep from commenting on how I was kicking his butt(and it was killing him), shooting geese at Izembek Lagoon using a 12 ga. Of course, I'm sure the 20 ga steel loads are much better now, than what they were 20 years ago.

I was a one gun 12ga o/u shooter for a long time. Then I got a 20ga Parker VHE. Last time I took the 12ga afield I thought I was swinging a shovel. I now have another 20 I bought specifically for clays and it is 6lbs 5oz. The 20ga with 1oz loads worked well on S.D. pheasants, and everything else I have hunted. I much prefer a muzzle easy to move quickly. By the way, I passed 70 this year and the shooting is just fine. The group I shoot clays with are all younger 12ga, premounted gun guys. I shoot low gun and most of them have a goal of one day beating the 20ga.

I like 12s and 20s but wouldn't most model 21s weigh as much as a light 12?

I shoot a 1100 fps 7/8 ounce load in my 12s and they're a pleasure to shoot. I see no need to go to smaller gauges that weigh the same as a larger gauge. I really don't see the need for the 28 either unless it weighs less than six pounds and I wonder if less than that is just getting too light to shoot well anyway.

Ultimatly, the trick is to put your money into what you want. Owning guns if supposed to be fun. Talking and writing about it's fun too, but the thing to do is buy what you want and enjoy it.

When we go dove hunting in the early season, the 20ga is the "big" gun that we save for windy days. Our group has gravitated to .410's and 28's over the last few years, including the younger guys. The only time we feel handicapped is when we are surrounded by guys with 12 ga pumps.

I am the same as you and have been thinking about a change too. You're sayng you want less recoil so you really need to think less shot or less velocity not less weight. Your 12 with a 3/4oz load is going to recoil less and since clay birds and doves don't need you walking around much a lighter gun is not needed. I on the other hand am having trouble shouldering a gun when at my worst, so a light gun and light loads are my plans. If you want a 20 though, get a 20! I just wouldn't get a light one if you want less recoil.

Agree with Ben. If gun weight is the issue, or you just want a 20, then perhaps that's the way to go. But if you like your 12, just not it's recoil, load up some 3/4 oz weenies. Most MEC 7/8 oz bushings throw just over 3/4 oz magnum shot. Something like a clear Duster wad along with Red Dot or Clays at 1100-1250 fps and you will have 20 ga performance or better without the outlay for a new gun and reloading equipment.

Sam

None of my light twelves weigh more than a few ounces over six pounds even with 30" barrels. I shoot RSTs, Polywad Vintagers, AA Featherlights or similar and never have a problem killing birds or having to visit a physical therapist afterward. I have a few sub gauge curiosity guns but the light twelves are, and likely always will be, my go to guns.

I will admit that there are more and more parts of my body that sometimes experience tinged of pain. My doc always starts my consult with......."Now as we age"........I hate it but, of course, he's right. I'm certain though that none of it is caused by my guns, at least yet.

At your age you (hopefully) have many more years to cary a gun!! I am 70 and still schlep guns around.

A few things make age easier. You need to make certain that your gun fits you very well. Then, recoil is no problem. People who complain about recoil or truly get beat-up shoulders mot often have guns that are poor fits and they have adapted themselves to the gun rather than the other way around.

One of my favorite guns is the Merkel 1620. It's a 16 ga built on a 20 ga frame. It is superb and I can carry it all day without fatigue. It is lighter than my 20 ga Merkel.

It's also good to try to keep fit - I am not an exercise fanatic but I "train" on my elliptical a few months before I go on a big hunt and it really makes a difference. Losing even 5 or 6 pounds makes a big difference, too.

Screw age! Keep on trukin'

Hey shoot what you want, but dont justify it on the basis of "getting old". My Dad had the best outlook on that of anyone, and he hunted with me up into his early 90's. He said "If your gun feels too heavy, get one that weighs a pound more, but dont give in". The guy that started this thread is an old man at 57? Give me a break! I am 76, put over 120 days in the field this year, and packed everything from a light 16 to a big 10, 6-8 miles per day. I "graduated" to a .416 for my big game stuff, because I could. Get that? Because I could......I think people should spend more time on "I can do that", rather than how can I make it easier.........

Go Chuck!

This should just be an individual choice. A 28 or 410 can be a tough gun to shoot for some. A 6 lb gun maybe to whippy or just the thing you need to swing fast.
I have 6lb 20's and a 4lb 15oz 28 that I forget I am carrying. When I need a 12 ga load I just take the Fox 16ga. It can be loaded from a 1 and 1/8th oz. down to 3/4 of an ounce. I never felt recoil out hunting.Basically it is an individual decision. 57 or 97.
Thanks for the oppertunity to rambel on.

My sentimates exactly....in moderen times we've been told we need light weight guns. If a guy can't carry a 7 to 10 lb gun he should just stay at home.

Why do I feel really weird anytime I agree with you??? I will say JoEy ol' boy, you hit the nail on the head. Don't take this the wrong way though...I still would like to wrap a loose worn out Darne around your neck, as soon as Geno finds one.

Dustin

Dustin,
Just make sure to use a 12g. They're more versatile and the barrels hold their shape better. Cheaper too.

I'm so old that my artificial joints are going to start getting replaced after turkey season, oth knee and hip, just wore them out. The crack about staying home if you can't hunt with a shotgun weighing in at over 7 pounds is pure stupidity. I still use firearms weighing up to and a little over 7 lbs. but the heavier ones are blind shotguns for waterfowl hunting. Some of us for various reasons have physical diabilities that make a heavier firearm impractical. I hope that this never happens to you, I don't wish it on anyone. I've been hunting for over 60 years and if I need a lighter shotgun for grouse or woodcock so be it. Even if I have to get off road tires and 4wd for my wheelchair I'll chase grouse and woodcock with my 6 lb. shotgun.

Not trying to pick fights, but this whole thread/discussion is why I like my goldilox 16's. Light gun, slim frame, plenty of oomph. They're just right.