doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com George Gibbs Farquharsons rifle

Gentlemen, I recently acquired a George Gibbs Farquharson action single shot rifle at an estate sale. I would like to shoot this gun, however, I am not certain as to the correct round this gun is chambered to shoot.

The side of the barrel is marked with what appears to be 465 ex. The number 5 is not clear, so I could be wrong about the 5. The top of the action is marked 710 and is surrounded by english scroll.

The top of the barrel reads Metford 1627 George Gibbs Corn St. Bristol.

The left side of the action has George Gibbs surrounded by fine english scroll. The right side of the action has "BOLTED" inlaid in gold letter and is also surrounded by fine english scroll.

This gun has a steel checkered butt plate and a steel grip cap that opens for storage.

I would describe the condition of the gun as good original that shows use. I am not set to send pictures so this is the best I can do.

My primary concern is the correct round as I would like to put a few rounds thru this old girl. BTW I am into this gun for over a few hundred dollars. By my description, how do you guys think I came out???

Regards,

Max

If this post is not a joke, you did very well indeed. The gun is most likely chambered for one of the two .461 Gibbs cartridges, both of which are black powder rounds. These guns are very highly sought after. Be careful with it.....

SKB, this is no joke. One other thing about this gun that I did not describe is that it is clad with a metal cover that runs from the action to half way down the stock. This metal cover is in two sections and is screwed to the stock. The cover is contoured to the stock. That is to say that it is shaped around the pistol grip. My initial thought was that this cover was done to stabilize a cracked wrist. Upon further examination, I do not think this is the case. I believe it may have been a requested feature done by Gibbs as it is too well done. That is the way it is contoured to the stock and all screws heads are perfectly lined. Also, the metal cover appears to be aged to the gun. If anyone has any insight as to this cover I would appreciate the information.

Regards,

Max

Max, as soon a Glenn Fewless recovers from falling on the floor from a fainting spell he'll be here to help you and answer some questions. Those metal plates are referred to a Selous (sp) plates because that's who was suposed to have originally asked for them. Frederick Selous was THE elephant hunter of the 19th century. Can you imagine what those plates must have been like in the hot African sun?

sounds like a VERY rare and valuable rifle....pictures would help, but I can pretty much tell you that you have one hell of a rifle. Glenn and I can both help you out....we both love them.....pictures man, pictures

max - SOMEhow, SOMEway, you've GOT to get some pictures of this rifle taken and posted here. PLEASE, even if you have to kidnap some 12 year old kid who can do it in his sleep, we need to see this rifle of yours. In case it hasn't sunk in yet, you made off with an extremely good deal, you should feel very good, indeed. I mean a REALLY GOOD DEAL!

Max, To echo the other posts, you do have a very rare and desireable rifle. The"720" is the action patent use number. Your rifle is the 720th Gibbs Farquharson made. The numbers go to 974 the last one made in 1910. Your rifle is not listed in Kirtons book, however number 709 is, and also has Selous plates as do 749, 766, and 770. these were used on a fair number of sporting rifles until near the end of production. 709 is the lowest number with these plates known by Kirton. Gibbs records were lost during WWII, so listed rifles are "reported" examples.

Depending on the ammount of original finish and bore condition your rifle could be worth between 7 and 12 thousand dollars.

The .461 Gibbs cartridge had a good following for target work as well as a hunting round.

All the best, Mal

Max,

Selous with his Farquhason




505 Gibbs


http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Number=103002&page=0

Here is another Gibbs Medford Farquhason for sale:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=218103292

Pete

the picture of Selous sitting in the chair shows his 1894 Holland/Woodward, not his Gibbs.

Sounds like quite a find! Congrats!
I have a 461 Gibbs Farquharson too, but seem to have misplaced it somewhere...
I am in the process of working up a load for mine too.
Buffalo Arms has brass (Bertram) but I am thinking it can be made out of other brass too like the 500/450 No.1 and maybe the No.2 Musket.
Is there anything engraved on the rear sight?
Gibbs Farqs often have the bullet weight and powder charge engraved on the face of the standing sight.
Look forward to seeing it!
As an aside, the picture of Selous with the H&H (the one leaning against the wagon)is often mistaken as a Gibbs. In fact, I have gone onto Wikipedia and changed the caption for that picture a number of times, but some "expert" always goes back and calls it a Gibbs again!!

Nice article on these rifles - including pics of one with the Selous plates - in DGJ; of course, I don't remember which issue.

It is DGJ
Volume 15
Issue #3
Summer 2004

I have read, and reread that article a thousand times...

Mr. max:

It certainly would be a treat to examine the rifle! I have been wanting to closely examine a Selous plated Gibbs for a good while with an eye to duplicating the plates. Mr. Mann objects because they cover up his pretty wood, but I really want to do this.

There was a .465 express chambering but, even though action 710 was a late action, I don't think the chambering existed when the rifle was build. Howsomever, it is entirely possible that the action was rebarreled at a later time.

A chamber cast and bore measurements are in order. So are PICTURES!

Respectfully,

Glenn

Glen,

I will get professional pictures as soon as I can find someone to do it. Give me some time. I have a lot of respect for this site and the members. It will be done. I was just going to post the question as to the difference between a Gibbs .460 1 and a .460 2 because I was going to buy an empty .460 brass case from Lewis Drake to use as a snap cap. Would like to make certain the firing pin is in working order. However, based on your post there was a ".465 express". I do believe this gun is a .465 express as the side of the barrel is marked 465 ex. the 5 is not very clearly marked, but based on what you just indicated I believe it is a .465 ex. Would the 465 express be a more powerful round compared to the .461. I make no pretense, I just stumpled on this gun and it is way out of my league. Believe me, I want to get you guys pictures as much as you want them. It will be done.

Regards,

Max

I saved to my mac desk top a picture of the gun as taken from the estate sale pictures. I am attempting to drag the picture to this response. If this does not work please advise what I need to do to attach the photo to my response.

For the moment this is all I have.

Regards,
/Users/jeffweinman/Desktop/2322496-t-1.jpg
Max

Hi Max,

E-Mail the photo to me and I will post it for you.

Well I enlarged the original X3 and it is starting to loose definition, best I can do.

Max's Gibbs:

Looks just as it should.
Can't wait for better pics.

Here's a copy of the DGJ on EBay

http://cgi.ebay.com/Double-Gun-Journal-V...=item588cfea33e

Max:

While the picture is a bit vague, there is no doubt that the rifle is real and worth a good deal of money. From what can be seen in the pictures it is exactly right for its vintage. Congratulations.

There were less than a thousand Gibbs actions made, and yours is number 710. Curiously enough, number 709 is known to exist and is a Selous plated rifle like yours. One of the books I need is out on loan (to the aforementioned Mr. Mann) but when I chase it down I will be able to give you an approximate birth date.

The .465 Express is a product of Holland and Holland, made after the turn of the century. It was one of a number of chamberings introduced by the trade to circumvent the .450 caliber bans in India and the Sudan, and was in fact trade named the ".465 India". It is the .500 Express case necked down to .465. It is highly unlikely your rifle was originally chambered for this cartridge, but not out of the question that it was returned for rebarreling to this chambering. It is not impossible that it remained in stock and was rebarreled after 1905.

If you would like to have the bore measured and chamber cast, the rifle examined and get my genuine, don't try this at home, professional driver on a closed course, opinion of the rifle, I would gladly do this in exchange for the opportunity to view, measure and study the rifle. And take lots of pictures...

Please feel free to contact me at gfewless@tds.net or call at 262-534-5154. I probably won't be able to answer the phone during the day but evenings are good. Email is good anytime. <g>

Respectfully,

Glenn Fewless

Max !! what a find, it�s like walking into an old barn and finding a Bentley Speed Six under a tarp thats been there for 70 years love to see some pics, best

Yes pics please!

Max,

One important implication of Glenn's analysis is that the rifle barrel will likely have British proofmarks based on the 1904 rules of proof, assuming the work was done in the UK. If you are not very familiar with the falling block family of rifles, I don't recommend that you try to take the forend off to check, but rather take Glenn up on his offer to examine the rifle and maybe collaborate with you in an article for The Double Gun and Single Shot Journal!

Regards, Tim

Max:

What's up? We sure would like to learn some more about this rifle.

You're killing us here...


Best,

Glenn

Glen, I am sorry about the slow progress as to photos. However, I have made some movement as to the particulars of this gun thanks to you guys. A special thanks to Huvius for directing me to the Doublegun Journal, summer 2004. I did purchase the Journal and found it to be most informative. Looks like I have the same gun that Ross has although the condition of his gun is much better. I wonder if his gun is in original condition??

One other issue that I have now almost cleared is the caliber. I initially thought the barrel was marked .465, however, this was wrong. Got a .465 snap cap, would not fit. Subsequently, obtained a deactivated Gibbs .461 #1 round to use as a snap cap and it loads and extracts from the gun with no issues. At this point my question is could this gun be a .461 #2 (since the #2 has a longer case) and this is why the .461 #1 seems to work. Any thoughts will be appreciated.

Regards,

Max

Finally came back around to this thread...
Max, the 461 #1 and 461 #2 have the same dimensions except in neck length, the #2 being longer.
So, the #1 case will chamber in either rifle.
The .465 snap cap you have is probably a 500/465 H&H (nitro express) so is quite different from the Gibbs.

Do you have any updates or additional pictures of the rifle?

Don't know if it will help any but have you tried..
http://www.gibbsgunmakers.com/
Also, Pugwash on this forum.
They may be able to give some information.

I am good friends with the owner of George Gibbs, if you pm me with what you want to know I will call him for you tomorrow.

This reminds my of the tale of the Amish couple finding the old guns under the granary!