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Joined: Feb 2004
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I am self employed and have been providing for my own healthcare/insurance for years. I am an independent contractor and have a St Lic.
Ryan was speaking about going from employee to IC doing the same work and would need to take care for sure to meet the requirements.
Gnomon was speaking about a true IC with employees.

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cpa Offline
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Originally Posted By: Replacement
Anybody who is working on a W-2 basis is paying for MediCare out of every pay check. Many of those who work for companies with group health benefits will find that they are precluded from simply continuing on the group plan if they continue working beyond age 65. Why? Because the group plans often have provisions that require participants to elect MediCare as their primary coverage once they become eligible for MediCare. Some are forced into MediCare because of these provisions, even if they can elect the group plan as secondary. In addition, it is virtually impossible for any individual who is age 65 to purchase an individual policy (except for a HIPAA policy) because of the medical underwriting requirements of the insurance companies. Most companies have tightened their underwriting criteria since ObamaCare came on the scene, because they don't want to take on any risks now that they don't absolutely have to. So, once you turn 65, you probably don't have any choice other than to sign up for MediCare.

MediCare is not an entitlement program. It is a plan that you pay for while you are working (1.45% of your gross income, plus another 1.45% contributed by your employer), and that you continue to pay for once you begin active participation, through monthly premiums. Obama's plan will double your Medicare participant premiums by 2014. May not look like a tax, but is has the same net effect.


As pointed out, inability to buy medical insurance or exorbitant premiums with limited coverage is the same problem faced by many who are not in perfect health and certainly those with preexisting conditions. Also, medicare is not paid for by the small medicare tax nor by the monthly premiums for Part B. It is an entitlement whether you want to recognize it or not. It seems to me (and I am on Medicare) that it's a bit disengenous to try to treat Medicare as if it is somehow different. It sort of reminds me of the teaparty signs to "keep the gov't out of our social security and medicare." Personal expediency trumps conservative political views almost every time, although many conjure up rationalizations for that expediency.

Last edited by cpa; 06/29/12 04:38 PM.
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Sidelock
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Ugh, I should have kept my mouth zipped.

Im not hoping to game the system (if one even can). I just want to take a few steps back.

My work ethic is needs rehabilitation. For the last few years, working has been like fishing in the wrong tide. You catch a few but it is too damn hard to be worthwhile. Im ready to take an easier path.

Health insurance happens to be the biggest obstacle to walking away. Maybe that will change, maybe not.

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Ryan - I apologize if I sounded as though I was accusing you of trying to game the system. The scenario you painted is entirely legal - just as legal as someone paying zero percent Fed income tax on "qualified" dividends from stocks.

cpa- thank you for that insight - I have never worked thru the Medicare numbers and don't know how much of Medicare is actually paid for by the Medicare tax and premiums.

re my lawn guy - he bought the business a long time ago and works like a demon. He charges by the area and complexity of the mowing (basically an hourly rate that I never understood but I pay about 5K/annum for his services) He is good and would like to expand. He thinks there are a lot of guys who are employed who dislike their jobs but don't dare quit because of health insurance that they can't get on their own.

Unemployment around us is nowhere near 9%. It's more like 3-4% and those 3-4% are slobs. Lawn man told me that he's tried hiring a few of those and they don't pitch in and work but stand there and watch him do the heavy lifting. The unemployed around here are those who don't want to work and you won't find local liberals disagreeing.

But Lawn Man's story is anecdotal and I'm sure there are many anecdotes that disagree with his! But thanks for the comments.

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Originally Posted By: Gnomon
craig....I only take issue with:

"So, how again does private insurance benefit by your hoped for single payer method. "

A single payer method is the most efficient way to buy medical care. We are unlikely ever to get it and our national per-capita health expenditures are likely to remain among the highest int he world.....

....Under single-payer they would not make as much money even tough they would be able to sell any supplemental plans they want....

....P.S. Glad to know I'm rich!



So let me get this right, single payer is better for private insurance companies because they would not make as much money. How about this, the company chooses to make a lower profit to compete in the market place. Do we need obamacare for them to sell supplemental plans.

I like your consistency G. Lots of assumption, but little meat n taters. So, you believe obamacare will be run just like social security and medicare. I do take one issue with your last comments though, prove you're not rich. Instead of giving away sidelocks, why don't you donate a couple of boxlocks to Dave for a support raffle.

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Originally Posted By: Gnomon
Ryan - I apologize if I sounded as though I was accusing you of trying to game the system. The scenario you painted is entirely legal...

....Unemployment around us is nowhere near 9%. It's more like 3-4% and those 3-4% are slobs. Lawn man told me that he's tried hiring a few of those and they don't pitch in and work...



Made me smile G. If the time is wasted it may as well be pleasantly. Ones mans slobs are another mans victim in need of healthcare. Shame on you.

I also believe cpa was trying to pass along to you that the IC senario may not be 'entirely legal', ifin you don't want surprise fines, back taxes and penalties. Just isn't that easy, particularly if it's the same job for the same 'boss'.

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Because Dave isn't my nephew and I don't have any boxlocks! laugh laugh

Actually I do have boxlocks but I do not have to prove that I'm "not rich" - that is ridiculous.

And you're right again! But it is not the responsibility of the American consumer to provide great profit to any industry whatsoever. They gotta earn it.

And some industries and companies die in the process.

Think RIMM

See you tomorrow- I'm off to my usual Friday white-tie dinner with my fat-cat liberal corporate buddies. grin

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Quote:
I do not have to prove that I'm "not rich" - that is ridiculous.

But you pay your gardener $5K per year to mow your lawn. "That is ridiculous."

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Originally Posted By: Gnomon


But Lawn Man's story is anecdotal and I'm sure there are many anecdotes that disagree with his! But thanks for the comments.

I just can't follow the thought process whereby his labor problems are going to be solved via Federally run healthcare. Increasing his labor costs will cause him to increase his fees. You now pay 420.00 per month for your lawn service. If he needs to give a health insurance policy inorder to secure labor would you be willing to pay 600.00 for your same service?

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Gnomon's lawn guy will be exempt from the employer mandate to provide health insurance to his employees. Business is too small.

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