doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com 16 gauge premium over a 12?

Roy, I think Holt's lists the 16 ga. as a small bore in their auctions. Times do change. I also think the possible premium might apply differently to different makes of guns. In the U.S. products, guns like Lefever can differ in weight around a pound between 12 and 16 gauges. The latter command maybe 50% more .

Interesting - here in New England, I think it is the opposite. 16 ga. is part of the Fox/Parker grouse and woodcock hunting lore, and more frequently associated with the bambboo flyrod crowd than the blue collar/meat hunter crowd (to the extent that any such generalizations can be fairly made).

From my experience and reading on the situation at the turn of the past century durring the hay day of the American double gun 8, 10 and 12 gauge guns were considered "meat guns" favored mostly by market hunters and serious water fowl hunters, and pigeon (trap) shooters. The 16 gauge was considered a "Bird gun" favored by gentleman hunter/sportsmen, 20 gauge guns were light sporting gauge suitable for young boys, teen age girls and women. The .410 was considered suitable only for eliminating garden pests.

The 16 gauge lost popularity only after the firearms makers, Gun writers and to a certain extent ammunition manufacturers started hyping the need for "Magnum Power" and touting the virtues of the 20 gauge 3 inch magnum which we all know is false.

As far as premiums for British guns I would think due to scarcity they would be at least 40-50% higher than like 12 gauge guns while in the US the 16 gauge still commands a premium in high quality guns of 20-30%.

Whether any individual would pay a small bore premium really isn't the question. Rather, it's what the market shows. I think somewhere in the 25-33% range is accurate for Brit guns. Might be even higher for American "classics". You can find a decent Sterlingworth 12 for around $1K. Good luck finding a 16 in the same condition for much under $1500. I think one reason American 16's hold their edge over American 12's has to do with people looking for something in the "game gun" weight range for upland hunting. There are plenty of Brit 12 game guns out there, weighing pretty much what American 16's weigh--and a lot less than your average American 12. So the same individual who might opt for a Brit 12 and pass on the premium for a Brit 16 would likely stay away from most American 12's.

With the overwhelming preference for the 12 ga. in pre-war US and and UK, I wonder why the 16 ga.was so heavily favored in Germany.

What about 28 ga British guns? These are a lot more desireable than a 16 with its marginal difference in weight to a 12 ga and mainly the availability of cheap and plentiful ammunition.
As an aside, I have a painful rotator cuff injury in my left shoulder, I am lefthanded, and have been shooting my Remington 1100 28 ga Sporting semi-automatic all summer in sporting clays shoots and my scores, such as they are, were much the same as using my Beretta 682 prior to my injury.
So, I'll start the ball rolling, 300 percent premium for a Webley and Scott 700 BLE in 28 ga?

We have a difference of opinion of British 16s. I have a Gallyon Birmy boxlock sixteen that weighs 5lbs-9oz. As far as ammunition availability unless you are shooting the Webley 700 28 your 28 British boxlock was designed to shoot 2-1/2" 9/16 oz loads in all probability. I have one, a Salter and Varge Birmy ejector, 25", that weighs 5lbs-3oz. RST doesn't make a 9/16oz 28 gauge shell the last I looked. But they do make a 16 gauge 2-1/2" 7/8oz shell, which was the standard service load for British 2-1/2" sixteens.

Well, one can load any gauge on a MEC 600, short 28 ga, light 12 ga 2 1/4", not a big deal to those of us prepared to work at it.
Cheaper too. Just because it's not available from RST does not mean the gun is parked in the safe

Might be something close to a 100% premium for a Brit 28, based on prices for the 700 series Webley & Scotts. But the trend today is for 28's with longer barrels, and as far as I know, all the 700 series 28ga guns came with 26". Too bad.

Re Brit 16's, I don't own one currently. However, remembering as best I can, all the ones I have owned were marked with a 1 oz proof. That's not to say you'd want to shoot 100 clay birds with 1 oz loads in one of those guns, or even a round of skeet. I reloaded low pressure 7/8 oz for targets and saved the Brit 1 oz loads for pheasants, etc.

I recently sold a minty Webley 728 at about 90% premium to a 12. Nice gun but with the short barrels it was whippy and it offered nothing beneficial my light 16's don't already have.