doublegunshop.com - home Forums Back Ground Checks on private gun sales

I hate to disagree with some guys here who I am more often than not in agreement with, but universal backround checks is the single issue we should be MOST concerned with in the current assault on firearms. As has been stated, this is the means and ends to the anti's long sought Gun Registry. This is what the backround check has always been. If their only concern was to keep guns out of the hands of felons, mentally ill, drug abusers, domestic violence offenders, etc., there would be no need to specify the make, model, and serial number of the firearm being transferred. This information is kept in bound logbooks which can be inspected at any time by the BATF, and eventually become the property of the BATF when the FFL quits or retires. Having this information has never had any impact upon crime nor has it ever been much help in solving crimes. For the most part, this is because the only folks who totally comply are law abiding citizens. They are also the only ones who bear the costs which far exceeded projections in Canada. Canada eventually repealed its' Long Gun Registry because it was costly and totally ineffective, but Quebec still has not complied. And there is no reason any reasonable person would believe that anti-gunners did not keep copies for future use in the other provinces. It's too easy to store large amounts of data in 2013.

Consider that in 2009, the FBI referred over 71,000 cases to the Justice Dept. where someone who was prohibited from legally buying a gun attempted to do so. Only 77 of those 71,000 cases were prosecuted by Obama's DOJ. This is only a fraction of the total number of people who lied on a Form 4473 and were turned down during the Instant Check. The Instatnt Check itself is a problem because many states are negligent in updating data on criminals which allows offenders to still legally buy guns. Somehow, this negligence is your fault. These are some of the people statistically most likely to misuse a gun, yet the Obama DOJ chose to let them walk free and continue their search to illegally buy a gun. At the same time, they want to track and register the guns you and I own.

Under the proposed new Universal Backround checks, every gun you currently own would have to become part of this unconstitutional registry. If you gave a gun to your son or daughter, there would have to be an FFL transfer using a Form 4473 and a backround check. If you died, every gun in your estate would have to be similarly transferred, but your heirs would have to acquire additional death certificate copies, and have a probate lawyer petition the Probate Court to do the required transfer. Just the hassle and cost in legal fees would be more burdensome than many guns are worth. Think of the multiple 4 to 6 hour waits DrBob spoke of on steroids. All this to track the guns and gun buying activities of law abiding people who ARE NOT THE PROBLEM! And all the while, criminals, drug users, and mentally ill folks are allowed to continue their illegal pursuit of a gun... over 70,000 of them in 2009 alone that were referred to DOJ for prosecution by FBI. This grievous sin of omission is being committed by the same Obama administration which says that we need all of these anti-2nd Amendment proposals if it will save only a few lives.

Gangbangers would still get guns. They would simply have to get Straw Purchasers who could pass a backround check to buy them at jOe's Memphis Gun Shop. They would use the same women they use to raise their illegitimate children and defraud the Welfare System. They would continue to steal guns. They could get them from foreign sources just as they do right now to get cocaine and heroin. Criminals are not going to follow any new law just because The Magic Negro signed it. So when the new Registration scheme and limits on certain semi-autos and large capacity magazines becomes a dismal failure, the anti-gunners will do what they always do and call for more and stricter restrictions on you and me... WHO ARE NOT THE PROBLEM!

Don't give them a fraction of an inch. This is the game we have been repeatedly warned about from gun guys who saw their rights slowly stripped away in Great Britain and Australia. They keep telling us not to fall for it. Those of you who are falling for this divide and conquer tactic need to see it for what it is... one small step in the steady march toward elimination of the private ownership of guns in the U.S. He who does not learn from history is doomed to repeat it.

I'm not that good with words....I should have said expand what we have to include private gun sales in stead of universal gun registration.

And that would not have stopped even one of these tragedy's and is a foot in the door for gun registration.

The first problem is that according to the FBI, between November 30, 1998 (when NICS first started up) and December 31, 2012 there were 987,578 denials. According to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, between when the Brady Bill was passed and NICS got up and running there were approximately 312,000 denials for a total of 1,299,578. Since there are, like, no records from that period I am going to pass lightly over it and just use the (much more accurate and documented) NICS figures.

Second those are initial denials, and an analysis of 2009 NICS data by Dr. John Lott showed that approximately 94.2% of that year�s 70,010 denials were false positives. So assuming that 2009 was an average year, the NICS system has prevented not 1.9 million prohibited people from buying guns, nor even 987,578, but rather 57,280 (or about 4,067 per year).

Third, as everyone knows, in our judicial system, people are innocent until proven guilty. So just how many people have been proven (or pled) guilty for violations of the Brady Act? I found five reports on the NCJRS website for 2006, �07, �08, �09 and �10 and totaled up the number of convictions for those years. This amounted to a whopping 209 convictions (and no, that 209 number is not a typo).

According to the figures in Table 1 of the reports, in those five years there were a total of 347,455 denials which gives us a conviction rate of 0.060%. When we apply that across the decade and a half of NICS checks we find that a mammoth 594 �dangerous people� who were kept from getting guns. Over the course of 14 years and one month. Which boils down to a whopping 3.5 people a year.

If I buy a gun from my neighbor or he buys one from me, I don't give a tinker's damn we're not reporting it. They can kiss my ass.

No one will who is is smart enough to realize what it is,and who wants their wife/children to have to drag every gun they own to a gun shop-and get ripped off with the transfer fees-or worse the guns,when they drop dead ??

All this is a backdoor gun registration,and it most importantly does not solve the problem of protecting the children in schools.

1)Get rid of the damn Gun Free Zones (aka hunting preserves for nuts bent on making an name for themselves).

2)Armed guards in the other 2/3 of the schools,not just the ones for the privileged children.

Gorsh... I'm not dat good wit werdz either...

But I can sure as hell smell national gun registration when its in the room!

Yep. "Here you go, son. You can have my Purdey before I die. But you gotta register it with Barack Obama first."

That's brain dead. And that's Homey jOe.

The reason for the "gun-show loophole" in the 1968 Gun Control Act was that the Federal Government at that time thought it had to satisfy the Interstate Commerce clause of the Constitution. What the "loop hole" does is except out intra-state sales from the FFL transfer requirement of the Act. That is what allows you (that is the private citizen) to sell or bequest or give a gun to someone who lives in the same State you do without the background check.

All the FFL dealers at any gun-show are still required to complete their background checks just as it they were in their shops. The exception is only for the private citizen, and it is limited to same State citizens as purchasers. I trolled a Husqvarna sxs through the local show here this weekend and the only 'buyer' was a guy from Florida. I told him I couldn't sell to him unless we had one of the FFL dealers at the show document the sale. He declined because those guys were charging $40 to do the background check...Geo

PS: On the other hand he may have declined because he was an undercover BATF&E agent and I didn't fall for his scam!

The "gun show loophole" is a misnomer used by the progressive/dems to try and get to registration-confiscation.

Nothing that goes on inside a gun show is any different then gun sales that go on outside.Geo would not be able to sell that Husqvarna to a non resident of Ga either place,and any dealer would have to do the 4473 and the NICS for any sale in the show and back it is shop-same rules.
They make it sound like dealer sell the guns with no background check and just write "sold at gun show" in the distribution section of the bound book.Not so.

Let me see if I can make this easy...

Since the US Constitution was ratified until today, NO Federal, State or Local gun law has had ANY effect on crime.

Gun registration is simply another step toward slavery.

There. Even Homey jOe can understand that.

I think.

Gold star, Bob.