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Joined: Mar 2009
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Peconga Offline OP
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I was recently examining a commercial Mannlicher Schoenauer 1903 project rifle, that was re-barreled in .257 Roberts at some point in the past. Based on the serial number and date stamps on the action it was made circa 1911, and would originally have been chambered for a 6.5x54 Mannlicher cartridge. The conversion work was done fairly well (I'd give it a B+ on the Bubba-Meter), and matched the factory barrel profile very closely, and also used all the original barrel fittings. Magazine modifications were also done competently, and it seems to feed the larger case reliably (unlike many such conversions done over the years). Over the chamber area it is roll marked with a gunsmith's name "C.H. Morse" and is hand-stamped "257 ROBTS" and "No. 305".

My question is: Who was C.H. Morse? A quick Google search shows a few possibilities, including a Remington employee named Charles H. Morse who is listed on several firearms patents in the late 1950s, and was a co-inventor of the Remington Nylon 66 rifle. However, I haven't seen any references to him also doing custom gunsmith work, and the barrel number and custom name stamp both suggest a fairly long period of activity. Anyone?

Cheers,
Peconga in Boise, Idaho

Last edited by Peconga; 06/09/10 08:43 PM.
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Old post but here is the information.
Charles H. Morse was an engineer at Remington Arms. He had a local shop as well where he did gunsmithing. I was told it was in Herkimer, NY. When I was 14 (1971) I bought a varmint rifle that was 22-250 caliber from a gentleman who stated that it was built in the late 50's early 60's for competition shooting which he did. Is was built for him by his friend Charlie. The barrel has the C.H. Morse roll stamp and the number 328 on a Springfield action. I still have it and it came with Savage 250-3000 brass that was necked down. Undoubtedly it was built by Morse prior to 1965 when Remington introduced the Remington 22-250. It further leads me to believe that C.H. Morse was also the engineer on board in bringing the 22-250 into the Remington fold. This if course is not verified though I have talked to people that worked there but in the production dept so all they can confirm is that Charlie worked in engineering. Merle Walker was my neighbor back then and he lives in Florida now at the age of 99. I believe he could confirm if Charlie had a roll in the 22-250 intro. Of course we know he was part of the Nylon-66 design.

In 1976, I had my 22-250 into a local gun shop for scope work and was informed that Mr. Morse had died in a snowmobile accident. I did a check on local Cemeteries and he is indeed in a Herkimer, NY cemetery with a 1905-1972 date on the headstone.

Based on the above information and the timing of the 22-250 introduction I would say that your gun was built by C.H. Morse at his shop in Herkimer prior to 1964. I do not know how many guns Charlie did nor if he stamped the first one with the number 1.

In my believe, C.H. Morse is behind the commercial introduction of one of the most successful varmint cartridges in history, the 22-250. Who knows what else he was part of.

Hope this helps and helps the others that have the mysterious C.H. Morse roll stamp.


Last edited by JRPMCCOY; 02/22/13 10:47 AM.
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Interesting connections. Your area is a goldmine of info on the US gun industry--sadly much of it now to be found in graveyards and archives only.

It is also one of the prime areas to find "lunchbox specials:" I had several when I lived in the Troy area, one a Remington '89 and the other an Ithaca NID.

I used to work with the Remington Arms credit union, so got to visit often.

Is White Dog Gunsmithing still alive and well in Ilion?

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Peconga Offline OP
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Fantastic information! It definitely sounds like Charlie Morse was the man responsible for the work on the Mannlicher Schoenauer, especially with the roll stamp and rifle number. I had read about his role in designing the Remington Nylon 66 but not his involvement in commercializing the .22-250 or any other biographical information. Thanks!

From today's perspective it seems odd to me that an engineer like Morse could be employed by a big company like Remington and still be allowed to operate his own gunsmithing shop on the side. Nowadays, most corporations tie up their technical staff so tight they can't fart without a non-disclosure agreement and assigning patent rights to the company, much less engage in a related side business.

Last edited by Peconga; 03/17/13 06:09 PM.
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Charles Morse did more than just engineering for Remington and running a gunsmithing business. He is the Morse of Wotkyns-Morse bullets. Yes he lived in Herkimer, but I don't know where the bullet company was situated. I have a Charles Morse 25-06 target and groundhog rifle on a 1917 Enfield action. It is a great rifle, but at about 11 pounds unscoped, it is not for me any more. In my opinion, Morse was probably campaigning for the 25-06 at Remington as well as the 22-250.

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MP Sadly Deceased as of 2/17/2014




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Mr. Petrov:

I have a number of boxes of those Wotkyns-Morse bullets that I acquired as part of a purchase of a collection of miscellany. Are they collectible, or should I just load and shoot them?

Thanks.

Rem

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Originally Posted By: Remington40x
Mr. Petrov: I have a number of boxes of those Wotkyns-Morse bullets that I acquired as part of a purchase of a collection of miscellany. Are they collectible, or should I just load and shoot them? Thanks. Rem


Rem, Michael Please.......I'm not sure if they are collectible or not. I have a drawer full of old bullets, Sisk, Niedner, Remington and the like. With the price of bullets these days it might be cheaper to shoot up all the old stock. I'm afraid few people would even know who Wotkyns-Morse were. I get myself into all sorts of projects where I need an old bullet for reference so I save mine.


MP Sadly Deceased as of 2/17/2014





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