doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Verney-Carron Helicobloc

Lovely, lovely effort there Wild Bovine. Hum, how 'bout some birth and death dates as well as the date of being dubbed a knight?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

One question that I do have is centered around the V-C tube making villa. Let's say they were making tubes, then why post WWII, 1953 or thereabouts, why would V-C(control freak) want to bring Jean Brueil(Breuil-Aulagner) and possible another master tube maker under their umbrella?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

They may have wanted to distinguish the few Gaul inland tubes they were using vs. all the Belgian components they were importing????? I just hope you are having as much fun as I am.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Based on the history posted on their website, that was the third amalgamation they went through in the 20th century, so it is perhaps not that extra-ordinary. Interestingly, shortly after the Brueil combination, they report that they scotched their earlier manufacturing techniques and modernized their barrel-making.

Doverham, you mean to say the they actually started to manufacture tubes? Put it in English please???? I do not think them to be imbibers of Scotch? Can't wait till Mr. Brown gets up.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

In their words:



It does not entirely make sense. Note the statement that, post-merger, V-C "now effectively controlled all of its manufacturing," which implies that others were making some components for them previously (possibly including barrels). V-C then "fully mastered" barrel making (presumably through access to Breuil's expertise and methods), but shortly thereafter overhauled those "earlier techniques" and replaced them with "modern processes" and "efficient new equipment." So one could read this to mean that they acquired their barrel-maker, learned his methods, and then chose to reject those methods in favor of modern barrel-making technology.

That's the way I read and interpreted it but more external inputs needs to be entered. I don't doubt Jacob Holtzer as the steel source but they peddled bars. So there must have been an intermediary between the bar stock and the tube in the rough. In comparison it is quite easy to cut & polish a tube in the rough vs. whopping on a bar of steel to convert it to a rough tube. For the post WWI period, I'd really like to see an inventory of Pratt & Whitney machines to support the effort of tube making.

Yeah, V-C were really adamant on control of the overall process for some reason. Maybe wanted to protect their Helibloc contribution.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Actually Raimey, according to the information I found on Holtzer, they made "canons". Once more, whether that's barrels or artillery pieces is unclear because "canons" had both meanings, but I don't believe we can eliminate the possibility that they made barrels.

Nor can we eliminate the possibility that V-C made their own. The sentence "He decided to abandon earlier techniques, putting in place modern processes and installing efficient new equipment, THUS PRODUCING BARRELS RANKING AMONG THE BEST IN THE WORLD" sounds to me like V-C modernized their BARREL-MAKING techniques, since that is the specific reference. However, once again, it's not entirely clear.

Why incorporate a barrel-maker into their operation? Well . . . why incorporate Francisque Darne, who made guns based on an entirely different action? In England, why did Atkin and Lang merge, later incorporating both Grant and Lancaster? I recall touring the Federal Cartridge operation some years ago, after they acquired Estate. But rather than continue Estate's former (rather unique) shotshell operation, what they did was use the name on a cheaper line of shells--and put to good use some modern machinery that belonged to Estate.

Much more recently, V-C acquired the former Demas operation. Prior to that, as recently as the late 90's, V-C was having its two lines of side by sides manufactured for them elsewhere in the European Union, while they concentrated on OU's. Demas became "L'Atelier Verney-Carron" which handles both sxs and higher grade OU production for the company.

Guessing at why a company incorporates another is pretty much . . . guessing. That is, without supporting documentation.

Hi Larry,
Some times, when industries change, lots of companies go out of business, and are sold for almost nothing. In those cases, people with some cash can acquire famous brand names for very little.
Henry Rieger was a good example of this, buying a slew of companies (their names really) in the early 20th century.
The end of WWII was such a time, when people needed money to rebuild their home, and not to go hunting.
I suspect that V-C went on such a spree and cheaply acquired these brands that were quite important before the war.
Jean Breuil was 75 years old in 1951, and probably was the heart and soul of his operation. After his departure, his business could have unraveled.
The situation in the UK was similar with major concentration at the same time, and the unraveling of dozens of well-known firms (such as Woodward).
Best regards,
WC-

I'd have to say too that absorbing, merging, consolidating smells fishy & typically points to some type of financial instability, i.e. either they could not manufacture tubes/their products economically or their sourcing modells were a bit on the expensive side. You can call it a guess, but the preponderance of evidence is pulling the scales for V-C to be more of a firearms merchant. Hold out for as long as you like, you could be right. If V-C was the primary and absorbed the others, it might be the light of a glimmer of hope, although quite dim?


Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse